Pattern 1776 Infantry rifle on auction

[Mattox Forge]

An original 1776 pattern Infantry rifle on auction:

https://www.cowanauctions.com/lot/extremely-rare-british-military-pattern-1776-rifle-by-barker-whately-4146581

Rather a rarity. Most likely a war vet. It would be interesting to know its travels.

Mike

[ntqlvr1948]

I saw one of these on ebay about 16 years ago and it was only the barrel and fore stock  and about 1/2 of the trigger guard. It was broken off thru the lock, and I don't think the lock was present. No buttstock at all.  It  still sold for over $8000.

It is a rarity for sure

[ScottNE]

Thank you for bringing this up, it’s interesting to see another original. I thought there were fewer than a dozen accounted for currently so the listing indicating that this is a newly discovered example is a bit noteworthy.

A 1776 (or a modern copy rather) has been my obscure object of desire for years so I always enjoy seeing something new pertaining to the rifle.

[Bill Paton]

The description comments about the ramrod swivel links is interesting to me. I have never loaded a rifle with those links, but I own one of Earnie Cowan’s superb bench copies of the Pattern 1776 rifle, and find the action of the rod to be quick and smooth in going through loading motions. Has anybody actually tried loading like that, and with what results and opinion?

Bill Paton

[Mattox Forge]

I think the problem wasn't that the design didn't work, rather that it was not durable enough and the screws sheared off after vigourous use. I recently was able to acquire a Morris volunteer version of this pattern rifle and it is missing the ramrod links as well.  A lot of lessons were learned about infantry rifle use during the American War by the British army that were incorporated into the1800 pattern rifle. One of them, I believe, was to omit the ramrod link.

Mike

[Pukka Bundook]

For mounted use, the swivel ramrod continued to be used, as well of course for pistols.

[Penske]

I have built and studied this rifle and shoot it on a regular basis. It would take some heavy hammering to break the screws off in loading. It is a joy to use with the swivels. My opinion why the swivels are found to be missing is that you can't use the ramrod to clean the bore unless you remove the rod catch and take the rod out of the swivels.A bit of a pain. On the original rifles the screws are near #10 size and thread completely throw the barrel wall. They are then finished smooth in the bore and the muzzle is coned smoothing it even more to allow loading with the ram rod only. My two cents. Also the rifle at Cowans does have some issues and the marking removal is just a story to help sell. I have never seen an AWI British musket or rifle where the markings were removed completely, only have seen US surcharges over the British markings.As they say buy the rifle not the story.

[Bill Paton]

Penske,

Although I have never seen it, the Ferguson ordnance rifle in the Milwaukee Museum is said to have had its markings removed.

Bill Paton

[JV Puleo]

I had a Short Land Pattern musket that had had the markings on the lock largely removed...not recently either. They looks as if they had been scrubbed with sand to obliterate them. I also have a much earlier musket by Humphrey Pickfat that has had the markings defaced although they can be read under magnification.

Legally, being caught in arms against the King with the King's arms was a hanging offense. All British ordnance arms were, in a legal sense, the King's personal property. There are numerous records of Old Bailey trials of person's caught with items bearing "the King's mark" ...i.e. the Broad Arrow, including one of a drunk who scratched a broad arrow on a bag of nuts in the hope it would prevent someone stealing them. Obviously, in the case of the American Revolution this would have resulted in serious reprisals so, wisely, it was never pursued but I can well imagine a semi-literate enlisted man making the effort to erase the official British marks. That it wasn't the royal cypher that was the official mark may well have not been understood then any more than it is today.

[Penske]

Bill
The Ferguson you mention is so sporterized it was not even identified as an ordnance rifle until the last few years. So yes it does have  markings removed. But Cowans story is that a solider removed them is just that, a story with no evidence provided.

PV
Yes you are right 100% but we are talking about a rifle that came to America in the middle of a war not before when we were under crown rule. Arms captured were put into service with little or no regard to defacing markings or in this case completely removing them. They may have been removed by a latter owner post war but without any evidence it is just a story.