Author Topic: Original SMR?  (Read 1371 times)

Offline rich pierce

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Original SMR?
« on: October 01, 2022, 07:25:30 PM »
Saw this today. The buttplate is the mystery. Definitely an original barrel. What say ye?

























Andover, Vermont

Offline Avlrc

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Re: Original SMR?
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2022, 08:11:49 PM »
I love those iron triggerguards.  Neat cheekpiece.

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Original SMR?
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2022, 10:29:42 PM »
Who thinks it all “right” barring the buttplate? Where and when may it have been made?
Andover, Vermont

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Original SMR?
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2022, 10:43:22 PM »
Who thinks it is all “right” barring the buttplate? Where and when may it have been made?

What is the concern about the butt plate? I am more concerned about the single trigger.
Dennis
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Offline rich pierce

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Re: Original SMR?
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2022, 10:45:24 PM »
The buttplate looks new and thick, like from a casting. No sign of brazing.
Andover, Vermont

Offline mountainman70

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Re: Original SMR?
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2022, 11:29:54 PM »
Seems I see one of similar style and lock screw escutcheon on here a while back. Guard looks cast too.
Buttplate looked cast to me too,but pictures hard to tell.
Overall looks like old timer.But then?
Thanks for sharing. Dave 8) 8)
« Last Edit: October 01, 2022, 11:33:38 PM by mountainman70 »

Offline Jacob_S_P

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Re: Original SMR?
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2022, 11:51:02 PM »
I'm with you on the buttplate, it is suspect.
The guard however - is pinned and looks poorly (originally) filed, for the sake of speed a d getting the rifle made. It is interestingly filled and appears legit.
I believe the triggers were double, looks like rear broke off.





Offline AZshot

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Re: Original SMR?
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2022, 12:02:06 AM »
I see quite a juxtaposition of styles, if it were a Southern Mountain Rifle it doesn't look like any originals I've seen.  The pointed rear of the lockplate, and rounded flint cock look older than the rest of the rifle. Or more northern, German.  The long toeplate tacked in with nails I've not seen on most later Southern Mountain rifles.  The maple wood is not common for that presumed area of Eastern TN or Western NC. The trigger looks cast, not forged. The buttplate screw looks new.
 The cheekpiece is also like none I've seen.  I don't see how this could have been a double trigger.  No room. The only thing I see that feels right is the lock screw plate, and maybe the triggerguard. Can't see the barrel or tang.

It kind of feels like someone took a bunch of parts and made a rifle, maybe in the 1960s or so? Maybe in the 1860s.  Or maybe all Schimmel barn guns look like this, I don't know.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2022, 06:46:06 PM by AZshot »

Offline P.Bigham

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Re: Original SMR?
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2022, 12:28:36 AM »
Iam no expert.  But I think the butt plate plate was added later,maybe originally it never had one. I've seen that style of cheek piece in a book on SMR,s somewhere. A single trigger rare but never say never.  All else looks good to me JMHO.  Looking forward to more idea's and information
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Offline Tanselman

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Re: Original SMR?
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2022, 12:38:10 AM »
I see details that suggest a more modern rifle, perhaps with some older parts. The stock looks relatively new to me, despite a few dings here and there. If this were an antique southern mountain rifle with any real usage, I would expect to see more damage/dings along edges of side-facings and around lock plate where lock had been in/out over the years. A troublesome area is the butt plate and its "fit." The fit is way too snug for an old rifle, with no wood shrinkage visible, particularly at the toe/toe plate area, and it's very tight on the top extension. Odd lock, odd trigger, odd butt plate, odd "double pin" at toe of butt and toe plate, and odd guard with such a heavy, almost cast looking, rear spur where it runs up to the rear extension. Too many "what ifs" on this gun for me to believe it's an original southern mountain rifle. I'd have to handle it, and probably drop the lock and barrel, before I'd make a final decision, but I am doubtful of any real age from what I can see here.

Shelby Gallien

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Original SMR?
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2022, 12:42:24 AM »
(Written while Shelby was contributing and I’ll defer to him but leave my comments. Of course what you say is plausible, Shelby, but I don’t get why somebody would stock up a wall hanger to sell for what they could sell a new one for. But folks cannot be understood.). It’s about a .36-.38 original rifled barrel; never freshed for use in the last 70 years, and a fairly small barrel giving a light gun. It doesn’t appear the barrel was once percussion. I think the guard and thimbles and nosecap and toeplate are all right. My impression is it was stocked like this. I think it’s a late flintlock with a new buttplate. I saw it an at upscale antique show today. It’s for sale by someone I never met before today. He specializes in early colonial items. He has some fireplace andirons probably from the 1600s.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2022, 12:47:53 AM by rich pierce »
Andover, Vermont

Offline Tim Crosby

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Re: Original SMR?
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2022, 12:54:24 AM »
 One more time, I don't know what append to my other post; Are the nails on the Toe Plate Brass especially the two at the very toe and are they tide into the two "Mushrooms" on the BP. I'm thinking a repair/replacement/addition.

   Tim

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Original SMR?
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2022, 01:05:17 AM »
One more time, I don't know what append to my other post; Are the nails on the Toe Plate Brass especially the two at the very toe and are they tide into the two "Mushrooms" on the BP. I'm thinking a repair/replacement/addition.

   Tim
Steel nails, tied into the toeplate. Seller is not a gun guy and found it as it is now. Feels like most everyone thinks the buttplate was newly installed.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Daryl

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Re: Original SMR?
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2022, 02:47:43 AM »
Looks like a simple single trigger to me.
Daryl

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Offline LynnC

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Re: Original SMR?
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2022, 03:40:54 AM »
I am not seeing any screws holding the trigger guard in place though i think i see a pin holding the rear TG extension. Rather unusual features for a SMR. The TG also looks possibly cast to me. Disassembly of the gun will tell far more than we can see on the surface.  I cant tell much more from the pics.  Let us know what you find.
The price of eggs got so darn high, I bought chickens......

Offline Tanselman

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Re: Original SMR?
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2022, 04:39:34 AM »
The softly curved comb with no nose, but rather a smooth blend into the wrist, is rather rare on SMRs. I think I've seen a curved comb on a MacInturff [spelling?] rifle, but even they had a little "nose" or drop where comb met wrist. The smooth, curved butt lines remind me of eastern PA or Upper Susquahanna rifles, or even the "Hatfield" modern black powder "southern" rifle, but I haven't seen many SMRs with this same butt architecture.

Shelby Gallien

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Original SMR?
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2022, 06:04:02 AM »
The softly curved comb with no nose, but rather a smooth blend into the wrist, is rather rare on SMRs. I think I've seen a curved comb on a MacInturff [spelling?] rifle, but even they had a little "nose" or drop where comb met wrist. The smooth, curved butt lines remind me of eastern PA or Upper Susquahanna rifles, or even the "Hatfield" modern black powder "southern" rifle, but I haven't seen many SMRs with this same butt architecture.

Shelby Gallien
Thanks. I’m taking a pass on this one. It’s well outside my usual areas of study so I appreciate the help.
Andover, Vermont