Author Topic: Proper accoutrements for English Sporting Rifles  (Read 1354 times)

Offline flatsguide

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Proper accoutrements for English Sporting Rifles
« on: October 02, 2022, 03:48:20 AM »
Circa 1775 for English flintlock rifle. Horn, flask ??. Photos if ya got ‘em.
Thanks Richard

Offline Daryl

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Re: Proper accoutrements for English Sporting Rifles
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2022, 07:16:39 PM »
I would say a flask, perhaps of the Dickson type.
This is a repro I bought, likely from trackofthewolf.


Daryl

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Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Proper accoutrements for English Sporting Rifles
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2022, 09:02:58 PM »
Good quality turn screw and matching wood Bulger.

Offline flatsguide

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Re: Proper accoutrements for English Sporting Rifles
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2022, 11:03:21 PM »
Good looking leather covered flask...Thanks for the photo Daryl. If I was making a take down rifle I’d make a case for it with all the goodies, turn screws included. My next English rifle will have a hooked breech.
What kind of bags did the English use, or did the gamekeepers Cary all the “stuff”.
Gthanks Richard

Offline Seth Isaacson

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Re: Proper accoutrements for English Sporting Rifles
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2022, 01:32:08 AM »
This photo shows some of the accessories with a Manton rifle from a little bit later around 1800 (click to make it bigger):

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/81/314/joseph-manton-single-barrel-16bore-flintlock-sporting
I am the Lead Historian and a Firearms Specialist at Rock Island Auction Co., but I am here out of my own personal interests in muzzle loading and history.
*All opinions expressed are mine alone and are NOT meant to represent those of any other entity unless otherwise expressly stated.*

Offline James Rogers

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Re: Proper accoutrements for English Sporting Rifles
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2022, 01:52:55 AM »
This photo shows some of the accessories with a Manton rifle from a little bit later around 1800 (click to make it bigger):

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/81/314/joseph-manton-single-barrel-16bore-flintlock-sporting

I believe that's a birding piece and not a rifle based on the barrel and the accouterments. Snake belt for  shot.

« Last Edit: October 04, 2022, 03:07:58 AM by James Rogers »

Offline flatsguide

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Re: Proper accoutrements for English Sporting Rifles
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2022, 02:28:05 AM »
I think that’s a shot snake in there

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Proper accoutrements for English Sporting Rifles
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2022, 02:33:35 AM »
Is that an Bulger " short starter " in the lower right corner of the case? :-\

Offline JBJ

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Re: Proper accoutrements for English Sporting Rifles
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2022, 02:50:29 PM »
Looks like a fowler to me with the shot snake, no sights on the barrel, and what may be a shot charger midway above the snake. Rifle or fowler - still lovely!

J.B.

Offline Garret

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Re: Proper accoutrements for English Sporting Rifles
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2022, 08:23:16 PM »
Ca 1775, the likely powder container would indeed be a flask with a lever and spout head, but would most often be made of horn.  The flask posted above would generally be identified as from the first half of the 19th century because of the overall shape of the body and spout. 

Unfortunately there's not much printed material available with information on these earlier flasks and their use, but Ray Riling's master work, The Powder Flask Book, does have images and at least gives a basic date range for the various designs.  In 18th century sporting scenes and portrait paintings, you are sometimes treated to a clear enough view to see that some are of a similar shape to the 19th century pear shaped flask but shorter and stouter.   More often than not these scenes show bird shooting rather than deer or boar where you'd expect to see a rifle in use. 

These were mostly made from pressed, flat sheets of horn that were formed over dies with the two halves joined and a brass metal band applied to strengthen the joint.  The flask heads are similar looking, but the lever springs are attached to the spout, which is a more graceful, turned, tapered tube.  Metal flasks existed as well, but the techniques for mass producing horn were much more widely developed whereas the forming methods for sheet metal was not as fully advanced as in the early to mid 19th century.  Flasks such as the "Queen Anne" were certainly in use at the time and would have been carried in a coat pocket as very few have been seen with rings for attaching cords or straps.  There were other styles of spout that used a removable cap that doubled as a measure.

If you're wanting to have a flask to use I haven't found any available replica or reproduction flasks: in this case you'd need to have a custom piece made.  There are originals that pop up for sale and you just need to be ok with using an antique.

I hope this is of interest.  Best wishes!









Offline Daryl

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Re: Proper accoutrements for English Sporting Rifles
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2022, 02:21:07 AM »
Oh yes- on a strap and in a side pocket of the hunting coat. I've seen other pictures of that.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline flatsguide

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Re: Proper accoutrements for English Sporting Rifles
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2022, 05:05:17 PM »
Nice photo Daryl, thanks. I just passed on a beautiful leather covered powder flask by Alex. Henry. It would go nice with the A. Henry target rifle I’m building.
Thanks Richard

Offline Seth Isaacson

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Re: Proper accoutrements for English Sporting Rifles
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2022, 05:04:35 PM »
This photo shows some of the accessories with a Manton rifle from a little bit later around 1800 (click to make it bigger):

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/81/314/joseph-manton-single-barrel-16bore-flintlock-sporting

I believe that's a birding piece and not a rifle based on the barrel and the accouterments. Snake belt for  shot.

Yep, smoothbore.
I am the Lead Historian and a Firearms Specialist at Rock Island Auction Co., but I am here out of my own personal interests in muzzle loading and history.
*All opinions expressed are mine alone and are NOT meant to represent those of any other entity unless otherwise expressly stated.*

Offline smart dog

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Re: Proper accoutrements for English Sporting Rifles
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2022, 07:09:08 PM »
Hi Richard,
If you are searching for accessories for the English rifle you are building, that rifle is from the 1740s-1760s at the latest. After 1755 or so, it would have a flat lock almost without exception.  Cased guns with all accessories were a post 1770s fashion although there are a few surviving early cases from the 1750s and 1760s. The earliest known was wood covered in leather and another was Japanned tin.  The linings were wall paper rather than woolen baize fabric. They had compartments so there must have been a few accessories in the cases. Probably some sort of leather powder flask, a cleaning rod, and maybe a bullet mold.  Wad cutters, turnscrews, flint whisk, oil bottles, etc probably came a few decades later.

dave   
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Offline flatsguide

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Re: Proper accoutrements for English Sporting Rifles
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2022, 02:34:16 PM »
Dave, thank you for that information. When afield in England did the shooter wear any sort of bag to hold the “accoutrements “ like here in the states or did his loader game keeper carry them instead. What kind of “bag” would they have used c 1750-1775.
Thanks Richard