Fessler at Rock Ford thread

[rich pierce]

Relative to the Musician's rifle, I can find a group of photos on line but each is of only a small section of the rifle. Is there a group of photos extant that shows the complete rifle?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/94428970@N02/albums/72157633106158428

I’ve heard it’s closely held by a family which has possessed it for quite a long time. Small black and white photos of it were included in Muzzle Blasts articles by Wallace Gusler; never focusing solely on this gun but to illustrate features found on early rifles. MB January 2003, MB May 2003, MB March 2005, MB July 2005 (lock side full buttstock). There are no published full length photos SFAIK.

Well, who the heck is Mark Tyler who posted those photos online? Are those photos of The Fesler Rifle or of another Fesler rifle?

There is an impressive early Germanic-styles rifle known as the Musician’s rifle which I refer to above. The lock is signed Fesler. Estimates on when it was made run from 1755-65.  It could be by an American named Fesler but signing a lock here is rare. Normally signatures are on the barrel. However there is a lock only signed A Albrecht so there is a precedent.

Then there is the rifle in the Rock Ford exhibit with a barrel signature reported as Fessler.  It appears to be a somewhat later gun and entirely of Lancaster or York styling.

The story of Fesler or Fessler gunsmith (or both if they are 2 different people) is currently unknown.

[WESTbury]

There is an impressive early Germanic-styles rifle known as the Musician’s rifle which I refer to above. The lock is signed Fesler. Estimates on when it was made run from 1755-65.  It could be by an American named Fesler but signing a lock here is rare. Normally signatures are on the barrel. However there is a lock only signed A Albrecht so there is a precedent.

Then there is the rifle in the Rock Ford exhibit with a barrel signature reported as Fessler.  It appears to be a somewhat later gun and entirely of Lancaster or York styling.

The story of Fesler or Fessler gunsmith (or both if they are 2 different people) is currently unknown.

Thanks Rich for the info.

The link I posted above to the Mark Tyler photos of the Musician Rifle does have a photo of the signed Fesler lock.

[smart dog]

Hi,
The engraving on the Musicians' rifle is so much better than any I've seen on 18th century American guns.  Just the motif of well drawn humans is a stand out.  Even Paul Revere could not draw humans anywhere near that well.  Does anyone think those engraved components were made in Europe?

dave

[Eric Kettenburg]

Those photos are mine which were given to me many years ago by someone who wishes to remain anonymous; I posted a few of them here accidentally, then said "sc**w it" and posted all of them that I have.  They may still be present in an old thread here going back maybe 10+ years.  I'm sure a number of people have grabbed them off this site.

At the time the photos were taken, the rifle was privately owned by a family in Lititz I believe who had owned it for probably 100 years or more.  I was told that one family member used to pop it off every July 4th!  At this point I believe it is owned by PA Museum commission or some similar organization.

[DaveM]

To me, the carving on the musician’s rifle looks as sophisticated as the engraving in its design.  And the carving behind the tang has crossed scrolls, which is a repeated design in the engraving on the buttplate tang.  All that to say it looks to me like a rifle made here, by someone trained in / recently from europe.  Also I can’t recall seeing a european rifle with a brass box?

[WESTbury]

From an artistic standpoint, in my opinion, the rifle Eric photographed looks much more sophisticated than the supposed Fesler rifle at Rock Ford. The lock markings on the Eric photographed rifle are remarkable.

[smart dog]

To me, the carving on the musician’s rifle looks as sophisticated as the engraving in its design.  And the carving behind the tang has crossed scrolls, which is a repeated design in the engraving on the buttplate tang.  All that to say it looks to me like a rifle made here, by someone trained in / recently from europe.  Also I can’t recall seeing a european rifle with a brass box?

Hi Dave,
In Europe the same man who made and carved the gun is not the same man who engraved the mounts.  Are you saying that some immigrant from Europe made the rifle and engraved the brass?

dave

[rich pierce]

From an artistic standpoint, in my opinion, the rifle Eric photographed looks much more sophisticated than the supposed Fesler rifle at Rock Ford. The lock markings on the Eric photographed rifle are remarkable.

The number of early guns “stocked here” that have sophisticated engraving and carving is small indeed. For me it remains a mystery, as to whether the mounts were engraved here or in Europe. It would certainly take a special customer to want and pay for such work. It’s also possible that the mounts were engraved here by a professional engraver who did not stock the gun. (See Dave’s comments above). If the Musician’s rifle was stocked in Philadelphia, for example there would be silversmiths and jewelers who could be engaged. Many decades later J&S Hawken “farmed out” engraving on fancy rifles like the Atcheson (spell?) rifle.   All speculation.

It seems evident that some makers who worked up to and into the Revolutionary War period made sophisticated and plain rifles for different customers. Dickert is such an example.

So many possibilities and only 2 rifles proposed to be related, with no gunsmith documented.

[DaveM]

Hey dave,

Yes my thought is that Fessler was a professional in europe and immigrated here, and made the rifle here with maple to his usual europe skill level.  But as others stated, it is all speculation!  What aspects do you feel shows the carving and engraving are by different men? You may well be right but the entire gun looks to me as a high quality of design and execution.

[DaveM]

Dave, I meant to say also - my impression is that the box itself is american and not european.  And that would support the notion it was engraved here.

[smart dog]

Hi Dave,
I cannot say if there are any style differences between the engraving and carving just that typically engravers of firearms were not the same people who stocked guns in Europe.  The key for me are the human figures on the box.  They are very well drawn and shaded. A feature to me that often identifies the skill level of an engraver are how they do hands and faces. The musicians are holding instruments and the hand positions and shaping are excellent.  The engraver was a master for that period.  The carving and engraving certainly look Germanic.  Fessler, if he did do the work, must have been an all round master gun maker.  The quality of the simpler gun in the Rock Ford exhibit does not look to be of the same quality regardless that it is plainer.

dave

[WESTbury]

It looks as though, judging by Eric's photo of the bottom of the muzzle, that the missing nose cap was mounted using a screw directly into the bottom flat of the barrel.

[rich pierce]

It looks as though, judging by Eric's photo of the bottom of the muzzle, that the missing nose cap was mounted using a screw directly into the bottom flat of the barrel.

Yes, Wallace Gusler highlighted that in one of his articles.

[Eric Kettenburg]

Just to reiterate the question:  regardless of whether the signature on the rock ford rifle is that of Heinrich Fesler or not, **what** is the evidence placing him in Lancaster (either Boro or county)?  Is this rifle essentially the 'evidence?'

I would think someone here has extensively researched Lancaster and would know if he has turned up in a deed, an assessment, a church record etc.

[WESTbury]

Just to reiterate the question:  regardless of whether the signature on the rock ford rifle is that of Heinrich Fesler or not, **what** is the evidence placing him in Lancaster (either Boro or county)?  Is this rifle essentially the 'evidence?'

I would think someone here has extensively researched Lancaster and would know if he has turned up in a deed, an assessment, a church record etc.

Eric,
Very obviously, you have seen and handled the carved and engraved Fesler rifle (now in the possession of the Pa. Museum Commision) in its entirety, can you put a county or school on it relative to the rifle's physical construction? The sideplate is certainly not Lancasterish.

[rich pierce]

Lancaster to York is just a guess on the rifle with the signature on the barrel, shown at Rock Ford. Only based on architecture AND the daisy patchbox, which as mentioned above, Shumway wasn’t 100% sure was first work.

[Jim Kibler]

I'm not sure that anything other than the box might suggest the Lancaster region.  Everything else looks pretty generic to  me.  I also find the spear point tang to be pretty odd for the Lancaster region.

Jim

[Eric Kettenburg]

In regard to the musician rifle, it is too early and too European (imho) to point toward any area of the colonies.  I'd say it frankly could have been made anywhere a German-trained gunstocker settled.

The rifle at rock ford as best I can tell is being placed as a Lancaster gun because (1) it has a straight 'triangular' stock and (2) the daisy box.  I think the 1770 dating is silly IF that box is first work.  Not much more to say.

I'd love to see a very clear tracing of the signature remnant and then try to "fill in the blanks."  Believably, without stretching credibility.  Maybe it can be done, maybe it can't.  Other than the purported interpretation of the signature and a non-step stock, I see absolutely nothing about the rock ford gun that relates to the musician rifle.

[WESTbury]

I'm hoping to get some input on the attribution of the rifle on pages 38-39 to John William Groff.

Perhaps John Kolar would be so kind as to express himself on this Forum as to his attribution to that particular rifle stocker. It is a great looking rifle in my novice opinion. I'm quite sure that John knows infinitely more than I on subjects related to these rifles and I hope to benefit from his input.

[WESTbury]

In regard to the musician rifle, it is too early and too European (imho) to point toward any area of the colonies.  I'd say it frankly could have been made anywhere a German-trained gunstocker settled.

Thanks Eric for your analysis.