Author Topic: Sight Adjustments - Is there something wrong here  (Read 6494 times)

Offline alacran

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Re: Sight Adjustments - Is there something wrong here
« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2022, 04:40:00 PM »
Here's my 2 cents. Shoot it at 50 yards. If it still shoots center the barrel is not bent. It has run out, and  it was not breached  with the run out vertical. If that is the case then you can move the rear sight more to the left so you can move the front sight more to the left. Adjust till you are shooting center again.
It seems you tried to make most of the adjustment with the front sight.
The mark at center of barrel at the rear sight is a witness Mark, so you can see how far you are moving it.
Not all builders are shooters. But really looking at how little you moved the rear sight. The barrel does not look all that far off. Seen a lot worse that shot really well.

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Offline Daryl

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Re: Sight Adjustments - Is there something wrong here
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2022, 07:49:49 PM »
Molly, the barrel should fit into the stock without any issues when straightened.

Exactly. The stock will follow the barrel.
Daryl

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Offline Molly

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Re: Sight Adjustments - Is there something wrong here
« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2022, 09:08:49 PM »
This is good!  We can easily pull the barrel and hopefully identify the bend and apply pressure to straighten.  Problem solved!

(Or take it to our local builder and let him do it.)

Many thanks to all for their comments.

MAS

Offline MJBush

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Re: Sight Adjustments - Is there something wrong here
« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2022, 02:31:57 AM »
Hi,
I am sorry I have lost track of the ball size you are using. If the bore size is .36 I would be using a .350 ball and a good patch about .017.
It is very hard for me to believe your barrel is bent or you have to bend it. I do agree where the barrel is pinned could cause you problems.
But first I would look at the ball size and make sure you are using soft lead.
Good luck
Michael

Offline Molly

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Re: Sight Adjustments - Is there something wrong here
« Reply #29 on: October 11, 2022, 04:58:35 AM »
Ball size is .350.  Patches are probably .015 or .018.  They are precut and put in a tin container, the original label on the bag was tossed.  BUT it's the same ball and patch used on another 36 which shoots like it should.  Balls are commercially made by Hornady.

Also, I do understand that the rear sight is only moved a very little.  Yes, we can put the front back some and make the adjustment on the rear more to the left, just have not gone that route yet.

Offline MJBush

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Re: Sight Adjustments - Is there something wrong here
« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2022, 06:39:09 AM »
Hi,
I think I would continue with with what you are doing and not bend the barrel. Hornaday balls shoot just fine in my opinion.
Michael

Offline Lucky R A

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Re: Sight Adjustments - Is there something wrong here
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2022, 02:25:53 PM »
       Molly,  I have encountered this problem several times in my building career (over 400 guns).  I do sight in and regulate the sights of each and every gun.  I regulate the sights to so the gun hits a smidge low on the target at 50 yds.  This allows the owner to file a bit off the top of the front sight to achieve the sight picture they like.  Shooting the gun also allows me to test general function, and tune the gun a needed.   
       Occasional I have encountered a bent barrel  and a little tweek fixed the problem.  I believe that your gun only needs a little straightening.  I once encountered a barrel that I needed to bend to the point of being visable once it was inserted back into the stock.  The barrel shot significantly to the right, but after bending it shot great groups, but the bend was unsightly.  I ended up sectioning the barrel and found that the bore had wandered off in the center of the barrel.  I sent photos to the manufacturer and they replaced the barrel.  I took a new barrel out of my stock and replaced the barrel on the build, no more problems.   I firmly believe no builder should deliver a gun in "unfired" condition.  Everything can look beautiful and work well, but until you put it on the bags and shoot it, you are only guessing...

Ron
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Online rich pierce

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Re: Sight Adjustments - Is there something wrong here
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2022, 05:40:20 PM »
Thin barrels bend easily.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Daryl

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Re: Sight Adjustments - Is there something wrong here
« Reply #33 on: October 13, 2022, 01:10:32 AM »
       Molly,  I have encountered this problem several times in my building career (over 400 guns).  I do sight in and regulate the sights of each and every gun.  I regulate the sights to so the gun hits a smidge low on the target at 50 yds.  This allows the owner to file a bit off the top of the front sight to achieve the sight picture they like.  Shooting the gun also allows me to test general function, and tune the gun a needed.   
       Occasional I have encountered a bent barrel  and a little tweek fixed the problem.  I believe that your gun only needs a little straightening.  I once encountered a barrel that I needed to bend to the point of being visable once it was inserted back into the stock.  The barrel shot significantly to the right, but after bending it shot great groups, but the bend was unsightly.  I ended up sectioning the barrel and found that the bore had wandered off in the center of the barrel.  I sent photos to the manufacturer and they replaced the barrel.  I took a new barrel out of my stock and replaced the barrel on the build, no more problems.   I firmly believe no builder should deliver a gun in "unfired" condition.  Everything can look beautiful and work well, but until you put it on the bags and shoot it, you are only guessing...

Ron

Taylor does that as well, Ron.  I usually luck out in doing some of the shooting. Get to shoot a lot of different guns that way.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Sharpsman

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Re: Sight Adjustments - Is there something wrong here
« Reply #34 on: November 08, 2022, 05:21:53 PM »
Thereís a lesson that could be learned here but unfortunately it wonít be grasped!
"There ain't no freedom...without gunpowder!"

Offline Jeff Murray

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Re: Sight Adjustments - Is there something wrong here
« Reply #35 on: November 08, 2022, 10:09:46 PM »
You might be able to check the barrel for exterior "straightness" if you have a good metal straightedge, or possibly a glass top table.  Check each flat to see if you can slide a thin piece of paper between the surface and the middle of the barrel.  It is tough to check the interior drift.  Runout at one end could be checked with a micrometer on each flat on each end of the barrel.  Bending is not hard but a little scary.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Sight Adjustments - Is there something wrong here
« Reply #36 on: November 08, 2022, 11:37:52 PM »
Looking through the barrel at a light, in which straight line (window frame) causes a line down the bore, is a good method for checking straightness of the bore/barrel.
A vertical string can also be used, as in taped across a window frame, then looking at it with the barrel rested on, say the back of a chair. The string or line of window
frame will be seen as "broken" at a bend or curve.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline elkhart

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Re: Sight Adjustments - Is there something wrong here
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2022, 09:52:28 PM »
Before you bend the barrel, try shooting in on an overcast day. Sometimes the sunlight glinting off the sights can throw things off.

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Sight Adjustments - Is there something wrong here
« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2022, 11:07:52 PM »
As Daryl mentioned, I take a good deal of time to sight in and check function of the guns I build...it's the reward for the hours of bench time and I look forward to it a lot.  I do not put a witness mark on the sight/barrel until the rifle is shooting perfectly in line with the bull.  Because of the perfect barrels produced by today's e3xcellent barrel makers, I have only rarely had to move sights left or right to get the gun to shoot centre.  But slight correction is acceptable.  In your case Molly, I think I'd split the difference between your front and rear sights and learn to live with them. 
I found Mike's video interesting and also recommend the use of a gentle lap like a wad of ScotchBrite on an undersized jag to polish a slightly rough bore.  As in Daryl's example, a poor cleaning regime can frost a bore to the point that loading becomes a chore when it should not.  Patch lube:  use a lube that will soften the fouling from the previous shot all the way from the muzzle to the breech.  If your patched ball rides over the fouling even once, the next shots will be progressively harder and harder to load.  I was surprised at what appeared in the video to be a very lightly applied lube on the patch material he was using.  But I will concede that is worked for Mike.
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Offline Pete G.

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Re: Sight Adjustments - Is there something wrong here
« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2022, 12:34:04 AM »
I would try filing the notch in the rear sight before I tried anything else.

Offline petejc

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Re: Sight Adjustments - Is there something wrong here
« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2022, 01:28:10 AM »
BEFORE, you start bending barrels, I would put the sights back to the original locations. then start fooling with patch thickness, ball size for that cal. bigger or smaller, load change up, diff. lubes,
check rest on bench again etc...if that doesn't change for you, THEN look into bending the barrel.
U.S. Navy 61 to 65, Pa. State Trooper 30 yrs, NRA Life member

Offline Waksupi

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Re: Sight Adjustments - Is there something wrong here
« Reply #41 on: December 13, 2022, 08:56:52 PM »
I would shoot it a few hundred rounds to let the barrel settle in. Then have a couple other people also shoot it to check for operator error.
Ric Carter
Somers, Montana

Offline Scota4570

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Re: Sight Adjustments - Is there something wrong here
« Reply #42 on: December 16, 2022, 12:19:24 AM »
I think the sights should be relatively centered.   I have had three barrels lately were the total sight offset required was around 1/8".   IF they are way off the cheek weld is impacted. It also looks terrible.

IF spend a hundred hours making a rifle, and pay somebody over a grand for a parts set it needs to be right. I had the maker straighten one, then I figured out a safe and controlled way to do it precisely myself.  Life is to short to invest money and time into a rifle that is obviously flawed.  It bothers me every time I use a rifle with such an obvious defect.  I would not keep it in my collection that way. 

Offline bama

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Re: Sight Adjustments - Is there something wrong here
« Reply #43 on: December 27, 2022, 06:32:44 PM »
Hi Molly

Early in my building career I built a rifle for a friend of mine from parts that he supplied. The rifle was a plain southern gun with a stock of plain hard maple. The rifle came out beautifully, architecturally it was a great looking and handling rifle. When I went to sight the rifle in the windage was way left so much there was no way to move the sights to correct it. I built a fine looking rifle with the parts I was provided, there was nothing wrong with my workmanship. I informed my friend that there was no way to make this rifle shoot point of aim without doing something to the barrel. At that point I delivered the rifle and left the decision to him how he wanted to proceed. To my knowledge he still has the rifle and has never changed out the barrel which I believe is the only solution. This was 40 + years ago.

If the builder sighted the rifle and it shot straight for him then I would say you may have a problem with your load or your shooting regiment. If he did not sight the rifle in and he guaranteed his work return the rifle to him and give him the chance resolve the problem. It he cannot resolve the problem ask for a refund. If he is a reputable builder this should not be a problem.

Everyone can make a mistake. I shoot all my rifles before shipping to be sure that they function and will hit target at 50 yards. I include the target if I shipping the rifle to my customer. The target will have the load I used to shoot the target with the. I have many target frames that are shot to pieces by people that say they know how to shoot. I have found out over the years most people think they are better shots than they actually are. Give the builder a chance to correct the problem if he can.
Jim Parker

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Offline Molly

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Re: Sight Adjustments - Is there something wrong here
« Reply #44 on: December 28, 2022, 02:22:11 AM »
The builder did not test fire it.  It came straight off the bench to the CLA show about 4 years ago.  There were some minor lock and trigger issues rather easily corrected but cannot recall exactly what they were.  Accuracy has been bad from day 1 but we took it to be poor shooting and nothing to do with the rifle or the load.  Because it did not perform to expectations it sat in the rack for the better part of the past 3 or 4 years.  I'm sure the builder would have gladly addresses if if it was brought to his attention EARLY.  4 years later is just not something my husband is willing to do.  I would say this builder has an excellent reputation.  Award winning, yada yada yada.  And there is a lesson, "good looks does not make a good gun".  So here is where it is:

Not going to ask the builder to fix it 4 years later.

Not going to try to bend or replace the barrel.

WILL work with it some more as time permits (and mind is willing).  Will try to set the front sight more to the center and the rear sight offset to the left.  Hopefully we can get it shooting well enough to be accurate and not looking like the sights are on sideways.  THEN will make a serious attempt to sell it as I am soured on it but in doing so all interested buyers will be told the full story.

Thanks to all for the comments and suggestions.

MAS

Offline Daryl

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Re: Sight Adjustments - Is there something wrong here
« Reply #45 on: December 28, 2022, 11:00:03 AM »
I would try filing the notch in the rear sight before I tried anything else.

Just re-reading Pete's post, I went back and looked at the rear sight picture on page 1. The VERY tiny notch is not in the middle of the sight. If in the middle, (moved over and made large enough to see, that sight is already in the proper position and centered pretty much and the front sight is fine, not being EXACTLY in the middle - oh well.
In retrospect, I guess once the notch was moved to the middle, the rear sight would have to be drifted to the left a tich more. It does appear to be centered right now.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2022, 08:47:35 PM by Daryl »
Daryl

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Offline flinchrocket

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Re: Sight Adjustments - Is there something wrong here
« Reply #46 on: December 29, 2022, 03:07:00 AM »
I donít think you an tell much from the rear sight pic. Canít locate the right ear to tell if the notch is centered or not.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Sight Adjustments - Is there something wrong here
« Reply #47 on: December 29, 2022, 04:38:30 AM »
Both ears show on my monitor, as-does the scooped front part and that little notch appears to favour left, not the middle.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline flinchrocket

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Re: Sight Adjustments - Is there something wrong here
« Reply #48 on: December 29, 2022, 05:35:21 AM »
On mine there is a shadow that obscures the right side. Not that it makes any difference at this point.

Offline Molly

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Re: Sight Adjustments - Is there something wrong here
« Reply #49 on: December 29, 2022, 03:32:07 PM »
I can post a better picture but I think the angle and shadow do obscure the "truth".  I see the notch perfectly centered.