Author Topic: American assembled musket...for military use?  (Read 1150 times)

Offline ntqlvr1948

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American assembled musket...for military use?
« on: October 10, 2022, 04:29:41 AM »
 I have a musket made from parts. The brass trigger guard and ramrod entry pipe and wrist escutcheon are similar to brown bess, but smaller. Barrel is 42 inches long part octagon and has two sets of wedding bands about 12 inches from the breach. Lock came from i don't know what. Gun is very well made with walnut stock. The best i can figure is that it was made as a military piece from parts. Has bayonet lug under the barrel.




















Offline foxm2015

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Re: American assembled musket...for military use?
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2022, 12:07:44 PM »
Looks like a British "Officer's fusil".   Similar modern interpretation developed and produced by Curly Gostomski of Northstar Enterprises now produced by Larry Zornes of the Mold and Gun Shop.   What caliber is the barrel?

Offline ntqlvr1948

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Re: American assembled musket...for military use?
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2022, 01:49:05 PM »
Caliber about 75

Offline Sequatchie Rifle

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Re: American assembled musket...for military use?
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2022, 04:46:54 PM »
Great condition. Thanks for sharing the photos!
"We fight not for glory, nor riches nor honors, but for freedom alone, which no good man gives up except with his life.” Declaration of Arbroath, 1320

Offline JV Puleo

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Re: American assembled musket...for military use?
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2022, 09:37:33 PM »
I don't see any compelling reason to presume it's American. All of those parts are consistent with a British volunteer musket except the lack of markings (or at least I don't see any). I'd be more inclined to think it's a good quality export musket dating from the 1790s...

The term "officers fusil" is one of the most misused identifiers in collecting. About 98% of then are really volunteer muskets and date between 1795 and 1804 or simply lighter export muskets. The reproductions are almost idiotic...
« Last Edit: October 10, 2022, 11:54:09 PM by JV Puleo »

Offline ntqlvr1948

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Re: American assembled musket...for military use?
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2022, 12:28:08 AM »
 Thanks, is the barrel typical of an English barrel?  And there are no proofs or any other markings. I have had it for years and I bought it because the price was right, and I am addicted to flintlocks

Offline JV Puleo

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Re: American assembled musket...for military use?
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2022, 01:41:45 AM »
It's a fine musket, one I'd be pleased to own. People who haven't delved into the subject of proof marks tend to project more modern practices into the past. At the time that gun was probably made, proof was not a legal requirement outside London and its immediate surrounding area although most guns were proved because the customers demanded it. Proof was never required for export arms in the flintlock era so, while most export guns were proved, many weren't. Since there was no US equivalent to the British proofing system, selling guns in America without proof marks was not difficult. Pistols with no proof marks are often identified as American when they are conventional export guns that never passed through the proof house, be it private proofs, Tower private proofs or London proofs.

So, a completely unmarked export gun is perfectly possible. It may even have been preferable if the American dealer who ordered it wanted to create the impression he'd made it.

I have the identical sideplate on a Birmingham-made Volunteer musket marked with a Scottish gunmakers name. In fact, aside from the lock, it is nearly identical to your musket.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2022, 04:23:59 AM by JV Puleo »

Offline ntqlvr1948

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Re: American assembled musket...for military use?
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2022, 03:50:06 AM »
 Thanks...I am learning something here.

Offline ScottNE

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Re: American assembled musket...for military use?
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2022, 03:47:45 PM »
It's a fine musket, one I'd be pleased to own. People who haven't delved into the subject of proof marks tend to project more modern practices into the past. At the time that gun was probably made, proof was not a legal requirement outside London and its immediate surrounding area although most guns were proved because the customers demanded it. Proof was never required for export arms in the flintlock era so, while most export guns were proved, many weren't. Since there was no US equivalent to the British proofing system, selling guns in America without proof marks was not difficult. Pistols with no proof marks are often identified as American when they are conventional export guns that never passed through the proof house, be it private proofs, Tower private proofs or London proofs.

So, a completely unmarked export gun is perfectly possible. It may even have been preferable if the American dealer who ordered it wanted to create the impression he'd made it.

I have the identical sideplate on a Birmingham-made Volunteer musket marked with a Scottish gunmakers name. In fact, aside from the lock, it is nearly identical to your musket.

What would the impetus be for a dealer to want to give the impression that a gun was locally produced rather than imported?

Offline JV Puleo

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Re: American assembled musket...for military use?
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2022, 05:28:31 PM »
It was very common, albeit usually a bit later, for an American dealer or agent to have his name stamped on locks...
The best example is probably my specialty, the Ketlands. How many K pistols are identified as "American" because they don't have proof marks and Thomas and John K lived in Philadelphia? The fact is, they never made anything...they imported all of it and it's even doubtful that they imported most of the K marked guns. There is no reason to doubt that others did as well so assessing whether something is American made or assembled has much more to do with individual features than it does with a name.

Offline ntqlvr1948

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Re: American assembled musket...for military use?
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2022, 03:02:48 AM »

Ok, thanks for the knowledgeable posts. I never knew much about a volunteer musket, and what threw me off was the side plate...which looked American to me. And with no markings at all I didn't think it through.. As it is I can see no parts at all that would have come from another broken down gun. I like it more now that I can see it is not an assembled piece.
Gene