Chisels For Kit Building

[Bigj1632]

Hi All,

First post here on the forum so bear with me!  I recently purchased a Chambers Early Lancaster Rifle Kit, and looking for good chisels to get started (mostly for inletting work, but possibly some carving).  I've scoured the forum and a lot of the posts on chisels are a bit dated, so I was wondering if anyone had any newer information or experiences.

I'm looking at a set of bench chisels, but also wondering if I'd be better off buying individual chisels instead of a set.  I don't want to spend a fortune, but I've seen some highly rated sets in woodworking forums (Narex, Kirschen) on various websites.  I've also researched the Pfeil chisels that are also highly rated. 

Would I be better off buying a set of chisels or individual chisels, and if so does anyone have any recommendations with Narex, Kirschen, or Pfeil.  Also, if I was going to go with individual chisels, what sizes would be best for inletting (squaring up the breach, and inletting the lock). 

I apologize for the rookie post, but I'm new to kit building and I appreciate any advice provided.  Happy to be here, and happy to get started on the journey!

[Birddog6]

Well, since you are just starting out, I say forget the carving part. Learn to build a good solid correctly built rifle First. That will take 5 to ? depending on your skill.  Nothing screws up a good rifle more than poor carving, cause you cannot see past the poor carving.  And forget about Making it My Own $#@*, if the urge his you. Many many many have put $1000, in rifle parts & end up with a $200 rifle. 

Keep it Simple, Basic, Clean, Slow, THINK before you do it.  And if you do a Precarve, get ALL the parts from the same guy.  (His pattern is inlet for His Parts)  Absolutely DO NOT jump into this & start inletting things. There ARE steps you need to do In Sequence & if you do them Out of Sequence, you are headed for trouble & on allot of things, you cannot back up, what is done is done. (I have a step by step if you email me)

Chisels.  Like asking What Beer is the Best ?  40-11 dif answers. 
For inletting & just starting out, I suggest Inletting chisels like they show on TOW. (Chisel BC-14 ?)They are all steel, easy to use, easy to sharpen & last forever. Dunlaps used to sell them as a set. Log cabin may sell them as well. I suggest a straight & a curved in each in 1/8", 1/4" and 3/8" wide. I know I built at lease 2 dozen rifles with just those & a few hand made scrapers. And I still use them for allot of jobs. See the handle below I slip on of removing allot of wood.(Saves you palm getting sore)

I like them & I also use allot of Flexcut carving tools on Inletting Locks,  because I like the handles (palm type)  Some builders like long handles, others like short palm type.  I have several good sets of long handle German chisels & never touch them. Don't like the big long handles. (Note I built ? 60+ rifles before I bought the Flexcut tools)

You will need a Mainspring Vice & a few other tools as you go. A small table top Drill Press is nice to have. Make or have someone make you a Drill Point for the drill press. This is made from a 3/4 x 8” bolt.  A push handle for the chisel made from piece of hickory.  I think Dave Rase or Dave C ?? Someone on here makes &  sells a Drill point for doing the underlug & RR tube holes. Mine is made from a old hand made C clamp my grandad made. Couple scrapers made from cheap carving chisels from flea market. Heat red hot at bend, quench it in a cup of motor oil.  Couple from drill rod from the hobby shop. Heat, bend, quench.

Here are a few of what I use.

Also keep in mind you don't need to spend $200-300-400 on a bunch of expensive tools starting out.
What they look like & cost means Nothing, as long as they get the job done you need from them.

 

[flinchrocket]

https://www.muzzleloaderbuilderssupply.com/mbs3cart/agora.cgi?cart_id=9209386.16897&product=Tools
Ryan at MBS makes some good chisel’s. Just cut up a old broom handle and epoxy it on and you are in business. A 1/8, 1/4,& 3/8 will get you started.

[smallpatch]

Definitely DON’T buy sets of chisels.
A few small straight chisels, a skew, and one for fronts of locks and pipes.
Rasps and files, flat and half round, some good screwdrivers, are pretty much it.

You can add individual tools as needed. I’ve got dozens of gouges for relief carving, and have gotten rid of multiples that I thought I needed.
I hope this helps.

[Bill Raby]

Pfeil chisels are probably the best that you can get. They are expensive. The chisels that Track of the Wolf sells are pretty good. They cost less. Don't forget good sharpening stones. I like the full size chisels because you can use them with two hands or a mallet.

[taterbug]

Like Bill, mentioned, dont forget good sharpening stones.  Even the best chisels will get dull, then you will curse them. 

I also lucked out and bought a strop set.  The best purchase I ever made.  Chisels will go from 'useable', to 'WOW!  This thing is working great!" after being properly polished on a good strop.  I'm finally getting to the point of knowing how often I need to touch the chisels to the strop.  Earlier is better

[Birddog6]

For sharpening chisels & carving tools, I used Arkansas Hard Oil Stones for many years. Smith makes a Tri-Stone that is pretty good. I polish or hone them on a piece of tanned lather with rouge. For the curved & V type, I use a honing block from Woodcrafts & their rouge. Prior to that used a little triangle shapped hard oil stone & a round one. 

[Jim Kibler]

Any decent brand will work.  That is anything a step up from what the hardware or big box stores sell.  Narex would be a good choice.  I would get a 1/8", 1/4" and 1/2".  You might also want to get two 1/8" sizes so one can be ground down on the sides to more like .075" or so.  All a brand that isn't top of the line means is that you'll have to sharpen a little more frequently.  So, don't stress too much.

Jim

[Bigj1632]

Thank you all so much for the information and encouragement.  I also do leatherworking so I already have strop block set up with rouge.  Shot in the dark, but can anyone put me in touch with Dave Rase?  I've tried to reach out via email and here on the board, but perhaps I've got the wrong contact info.  Looking for a drilling jig.

Again, thank you all so much.  I'm sure I will have more questions as I move along in the process.  Cheers.
 

[DaveMZ]

Thank you all so much for the information and encouragement.  I also do leatherworking so I already have strop block set up with rouge.  Shot in the dark, but can anyone put me in touch with Dave Rase?  I've tried to reach out via email and here on the board, but perhaps I've got the wrong contact info.  Looking for a drilling jig.

Again, thank you all so much.  I'm sure I will have more questions as I move along in the process.  Cheers.
 

I second his thanks for the helpful advise you gentlemen have provided!

[Birddog6]

Dave Rase just had knee surgery, so may not be responding as
Promptly as he normally would.

[bama]

Invest in the book Recreating the American Longrifle, it explains in detail how to build a Longrifle and the tools used to do the job. You will save time and money. It is a old book by today’s standards but it is well written and still a valuable source of information to the beginning builder.

[DavidC]

That first chisel that D. Keith Lisle linked a picture of is a godsend for so many things, imagine never having an offset spatula to cook with! Still, I took an old 1/8" craftsman chisel and ground the width down to about 3/32 wide to use in inletting barrel tenons and getting into spaces you sort of want to "flick" something out of the way.

Bench chisels, if you're going to do any other hobby woodworking, Narex really can't be beat for the value IMO. I'd spurn the older, more experienced guys, saying you don't need a set, when a set of Narex bench chisels is 1/8 the cost of a pfeill set. Again, only really worth getting the set if you know you'll use it elsewhere; Not much call for a 1" chisel in making a rifle.

I have the largest flexcut set woodcraft carried around 4-5 years ago and love it. I often don't use the handles at all because the short, stubby nature of the chisel can make maneuvering it in tight spaces pretty easy, and you'll always have whatever size handle (full length or palm) available if you need it. They're good steel and you get a great variety for around 250$ where you would need well over 1200$ to get the same variety of Pfeill carving tools. That said you'll likely only use 6-7 different sizes of the flexcut set and a couple of those would be skews.

I do believe the flexcut go on sale at woodcraft now and then, you might want to keep an eye out and order them online or go check them out in person. My woodcraft outside Pittsburgh let me play with the Pfeill and flexcut sets in store (taking some cuts on small hardwood cutoffs from a class).

Good luck!

[Darkhorse]

When I built my first rifle I was a working Tool & Die maker and I had a good skill set using hand tools to make small parts. When I built the second one I had more skills that really helped me to make longrifles. But the thing that helped me the most was buying a video of building a rifle off Jim Chambers website. He also sold a couple more I should have bought.
For me having someone tell me how to do something was really helpful.
And seeing photo's of how someone else solved a problem was even more so.
But watching a video was simply the best.

[Bigj1632]

Agreed Darkhorse!  I bought the first video and thinking on the second two videos offered by Chambers.  I'm a visual learner so I am sure they will help, but I'm also certain I will make my fair share of mistakes!

[elkhorne]

Bigj1632,
Another very valuable set of resources at your fingertips today are the numerous videos of Bill Raby that can be found on Rumble, this forum under This area and on Patreon. Bill goes step by step as he currently builds a Maryland rifle in the likeness of John Armstrong. He also has builds of his fusil, a 4 Bore and a Lancaster style rifle similar to a Isaac Haines style. Bill shares all kinds of tips and techniques that many use but a new builder seems to have to learn by trial and error. Check him out and what I like to do is, before I start a step in my build, I will go watch Bill’s videos dealing with that build area before I jump into my build. Check him out and good luck!
elkhorne

[Bill Raby]

Also look up ILoveMuzzleloading build videos on You Tube. You get the most from videos by watching them from several different people. Everyone is going to do things a bit differently. Take what will work best for you from each.

[Terry Cheek]

Bigjay1632 you will find sage wisdom from these builders. I did as I went through my first build. I am indebted to these builders beyond what words can describe. I learned a lot and my build turned out nice. I am well pleased with my first. I hope to do #2 within the year. Of course, that depends on inflation and available money. My advice for a first-time builder is, patience, if you are in doubt about something don't do it until you have thought it through and or ask the builders on this forum.

[Crow Choker]

https://www.muzzleloaderbuilderssupply.com/mbs3cart/agora.cgi?cart_id=9209386.16897&product=Tools
Ryan at MBS makes some good chisel’s. Just cut up a old broom handle and epoxy it on and you are in business. A 1/8, 1/4,& 3/8 will get you started.

Curious--how good a quality are these chisel's at MBS, ie the ones they create in their shop and sell only as the shanks where you add your own handle. Do they keep a good edge? Has anyone ever bought and used? Look to be a good price and adding a handle would be an easy addition. Have replaced handles on various items for a while now.

[flinchrocket]

I have six I think, have never put handles on them. They will hold an edge and are plenty good enough for kit building without putting you in the poor house. I have built several from blanks using them.

[Dennis Glazener]

https://www.muzzleloaderbuilderssupply.com/mbs3cart/agora.cgi?cart_id=9209386.16897&product=Tools
Ryan at MBS makes some good chisel’s. Just cut up a old broom handle and epoxy it on and you are in business. A 1/8, 1/4,& 3/8 will get you started.

Curious--how good a quality are these chisel's at MBS, ie the ones they create in their shop and sell only as the shanks where you add your own handle. Do they keep a good edge? Has anyone ever bought and used? Look to be a good price and adding a handle would be an easy addition. Have replaced handles on various items for a while now.

I have 2 or 3 and they are well worth the money, mine do not hold an edge as long as the pheil chisels but more than adequate.
Dennis

[oldtravler61]

  First you have received a lot of good advice. When I started building I bought a VHS tape on how to build a Kentucky Rifle by some guy named Herschel House ...  It is still my favorite video because he will show you how you can build a high quality rifle with very few tools..
  Some of these video's out their show you how to do things but they use a Mill, lathe and a bunch of other tools that are nice but not necessary.
 You can build any muzzleloader you want.  With a few chisels, a hand drill and a few gouges and a good wood rasp.
  But the two things you can't buy are patients and learning to sharpen your tools. You can always work around the tools you don't have..
   Oldtravler

[Dennis Glazener]

You probably will want one or two small gouges but not mandatory.
Dennis

[Jerry]

I would suggest not buying a set of chisels. But only the chisels you need. I inlet and carve an entire gun with 3 or 4 chisels. I hardly use flat chisels. I can do everything with a slightly curved chisel. I like a good Swiss or German made chisels. Enjoy!

[Crow Choker]

Well my current chisel line up isn't much, but ifin I had to could probably do something with em. Four straight Craftsman made in USA chisels (1/4,1/2,3/4/1"). I bought these way back in early 70's. Hold a really good edge. Have also two Henckel U gouges (around 3/16 and 5/16" or so). I bought them from Brownells back in the mid/late 70's. Think they were around $3 each back then. I know when Brownells was still carrying them, the price had shot to around 5-6 times I paid for my two each.. Does Henckel still make/offer them. Can't find any info that they still do. See used ones for sale on eBay.

 Have several narrow veneers I've used when back in the day I did a bit of stock checkering and checkering freshening. That's about it except for Xacto knife set and a fair amount of various bladed knives. After reading alot about what most wood carvers use and watching Bill Raby's video on good essential tools, I'm not real set up. Course if all a person had was an old Barlow knife, suppose over time ya could carve a canoe outa a tree log.  Sort of interested in those chisel shanks Muzzle Loader Builders Supply offer. Appears from comments that they are pretty good. May not be the degree that others are, but ifin I don't have the cut to carve, not a whole lot invested. I'm not in to alot of carving on a stock, just simple tasteful stuff. Sort of like over engraving on any firearm, simple-whole receivers, barrel, etc IMO doesn't cut it.