Author Topic: Strong Frizzen Spring  (Read 1284 times)

Offline Jeff64

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Strong Frizzen Spring
« on: October 19, 2022, 06:22:12 AM »
I have a TOTW Tulle lock and when I release the sear the frizzen wedges into the frizzen.  Just hits it and stops.  I've played with the flint, flipped it around, tried a shorter one...same results.  Pulling the hammer back takes a good deal of force so i feel the mainspring is strong enough.  Pulling the frizzen open also requires a good bit of force.  Leaves me to believe the frizzen spring too strong.  I can make the frizzen spring narrower, thin it out or remove some metal from the spur on the frizzen that contacts the spring.  Where would you start?

Offline Rt5403

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Re: Strong Frizzen Spring
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2022, 12:57:57 PM »
I have a TOTW Tulle lock and when I release the sear the frizzen wedges into the frizzen.  Just hits it and stops.  I've played with the flint, flipped it around, tried a shorter one...same results.  Pulling the hammer back takes a good deal of force so i feel the mainspring is strong enough.  Pulling the frizzen open also requires a good bit of force.  Leaves me to believe the frizzen spring too strong.  I can make the frizzen spring narrower, thin it out or remove some metal from the spur on the frizzen that contacts the spring.  Where would you start?

Only enough I had this same issue with a chambers around face lock I was putting on my Fowler. I did all you just described and it would push the frozen a little and stop. I had no clue what to do. So I looked into where the frozen hinges first. I put a little 3&1 oil on the frozen bolt and all contacting surfaces on the frozen hinges and Wala the frozen works perfectly. Before you start messing with the spring take your frozen off and polish all the surface that come in contact with each other first and add just a drop of oil to it when reassembled. If that doesn't work then maybe ask one of the more experienced guys here for help. Good luck hope this helps

Ross

Offline smart dog

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Re: Strong Frizzen Spring
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2022, 02:54:18 PM »
Hi,
First, make sure the frizzen is not actually opening all the way and bouncing back.  Don't kid yourself into thinking you can see that happen.  Rebound will look exactly like the frizzen is getting wedged and never opened. Before assuming the frizzen is not opening and then weakening the frizzen spring, put a piece of masking tape on the frizzen spring where the curl of the frizzen will hit when open.  Fire the lock and look to see if the tape is dimpled. If the tape is dimpled, you have rebound and the frizzen spring is not too heavy, rather too light compared with the strength of the mainspring.  If the tape is not dimpled, then the frizzen is not opening and you should weaken the frizzen spring a tiny bit by grinding the top leaf a little thinner.  Before doing that, however, polish the top leaf and the toe of the frizzen and lubricate the spring to see if that is all you need to do. That lock has another issue.  Look closely at the shoulder on the flint cock that rests on the lock plate when the cock is at rest.  Notice that it is almost as deep as the edge of the plate at that point.  Now imagine inletting that so the cock clears the wood.  You will come close to completely exposing the edge of the plate at that point.  The thick bolster part on the lock plate is too short.  Rather than extend the bolster back to cover where the cock comes to rest, TOW's solution is to move the cock away from the plate.  Notice how far the cock is from the plate.  I weld metal on the plate, extending the bolster back until it completely covers the location where the cock comes to rest. Also notice how high the mainspring is positioned inside the lock.  That almost guarantees the spring will hit the barrel unless the barrel is really skinny.  You probably will have to grind the top leaf of the spring narrower to clear a barrel.   

dave
« Last Edit: October 19, 2022, 02:57:56 PM by smart dog »
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Offline Dphariss

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Re: Strong Frizzen Spring
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2022, 06:15:43 PM »
Is the frizzen soft? I.E. Is the flint raising burrs?  If you don’t have any go to some guns store and by a syringe of synthetic firearms grease. Appy to the frizzen spring/frizzen foot. Use synthetic oil on the pivot pin. Grease the tumbler lightly where the mainspring rubs on it. A scant drop on the tumbler shaft at lock plate, bridle and fly. Wipe off any excess to keep it off the wood.
I use dregs from from the bottles after oil changes as gun oil. This way its essentially  free and will stay fluid to -50 or so (Amsoil 0w20 or 5w30). Thus I use synthetic grease as well. The syringe makes it easy to apply. Petroleum oils/greases are more likely to gum things up.
And, as stated previously here, check for frizzen spring back if its sparking OK
« Last Edit: October 19, 2022, 06:19:00 PM by Dphariss »
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Offline oldtravler61

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Re: Strong Frizzen Spring
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2022, 06:24:39 PM »
  Not sure if my frizzen issue was the same as yours. But my frizzen edge was a few thousand over the edge of the bolster. Which when in the gun was rubbing on the barrel flat. Making the frizzen drag against it.  Lock plate was inletted properly. 
Drove me crazy till I figured it out and it doesn't take much...lol

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Strong Frizzen Spring
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2022, 06:35:29 PM »
Just some of our experience with grease...  We've found Krytox GPL215 to be fantastic.  It really shines on the tumbler foot, especially with really strong springs.  This stuff isn't cheap, but makes a noticeable improvement in smoothness and tendency to gauld.

Jim

Offline Daryl

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Re: Strong Frizzen Spring
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2022, 08:07:30 PM »
I use a moly grease sold by Lyman in a small white tub. It works well and does not wash off easily when cleaning the lock.
Daryl

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Offline Jeff64

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Re: Strong Frizzen Spring
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2022, 04:53:48 AM »
Thanks for the comments.  After I posted I noticed that there were scratches on both the lock plate, from the frizzen spring, and on the spring itself from the spur on the frizzen. Polished things up and bam, worked.  Read your posts regarding grease and polished a bit more and add some grease.  Working fine.  Bottom line is that I had a lot of friction in a few different places which combined with a strong spring was causing the problem.  Never did get to the tape on the frizzen spring trick, but its knowledge tucked away. 
Smart Dog, thanks for pointing out the short bolster.  I noticed I had a problem there, but hadn't realized the issue with the bolster.  Of course I look at it now and it seems so obvious.  That's a problem for later.  I'm a hack welder, which means gob it on thick and file to shape, so may wait on that fix.  Also see what you mean about the mainspring.  Looked at all my other locks, original and modern, and indeed that Tulle sits a good 1/8" higher than most. 
I'm a little bit smarter than I was yesterday.  Thanks again all.