Author Topic: German Jaeger Hunting Bag Question  (Read 1214 times)

Offline Nailcreek

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German Jaeger Hunting Bag Question
« on: October 24, 2022, 03:38:45 AM »
I've a couple Jaegers on the way and would welcome knowing what a Germanic or European hunting bag from the 1700s might look like.  Open to suggestions and ideas.

Thanks much!


Offline Ron Scott

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Re: German Jaeger Hunting Bag Question
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2022, 04:47:58 PM »
I'll be interested in what responses you get. I asked Erhard Wolf a similar question since he lives in Germany and knows collectors of Jaeger rifles . He admitted that original Hunting bags of that period are not well documented and sent me a few photos of period paintings as best reference. If I can locate those photos, I will add them . I was enamored with bags
decorated with deer dew claws. Most of those are 19th and 20th century in origin . I'd be pleased if anyone can document any 18th century bags.

Offline James Rogers

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Re: German Jaeger Hunting Bag Question
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2022, 05:28:32 PM »
I agree with Mr. Wolf. Paintings are your best option. Here are a few for you to get started. Most differ considerably from what the most vocal think was an 18th century German bag. Belt bags are common as are shoulder bags.









« Last Edit: October 24, 2022, 05:35:21 PM by James Rogers »

Offline James Rogers

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Re: German Jaeger Hunting Bag Question
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2022, 05:31:36 PM »
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Offline Daryl

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Re: German Jaeger Hunting Bag Question
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2022, 01:26:48 AM »
Well, lots of belt bags. Was there (from photos) a situation where a shoulder strapped bag was also held by the waist belt?
Daryl

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Offline Monty59

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Re: German Jaeger Hunting Bag Question
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2022, 09:27:34 AM »
Hello, here I have a few more. You have to consider in Germany in the 18th century that hunting was only reserved for the nobility you won't see many simple bags.

Monty












« Last Edit: October 25, 2022, 09:32:05 AM by Monty59 »

Offline hawkeye

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Re: German Jaeger Hunting Bag Question
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2022, 11:02:01 AM »
I got this one available










Offline Nailcreek

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Re: German Jaeger Hunting Bag Question
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2022, 04:34:48 AM »
Thanks ... it certainly makes sense that the bags were somewhat ornate and not utilitarian, if hunting was the preserve of the nobility and those connected.  These are all great references!

Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: German Jaeger Hunting Bag Question
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2022, 03:54:16 PM »
I suppose hunting with a rifle would preclude putting your shot game in the bag!
Need a fair net on the front for a boar or deer. ;)

Serious though, the bag was used for what?
Fixings to keep the gun clean and working, Grub?
There is a great hole in my knowledge regarding Germanic rifle hunting bags!

Offline James Rogers

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Re: German Jaeger Hunting Bag Question
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2022, 04:43:38 PM »
Richard,
Of the images I posted, two are actual game bags to hold small game, one is a snapsack pack (IIRC) and all the others appear to be bags that would be used for holding components necessary to the shooting and maintenance of the firearm. Monty's photos would be for the latter as well but the one with with the ring mouth could be for game. Every one of Monty's photos shows bag styles that were prevalent in the medieval period and they held on in same form into the 18th century but for use in sporting purposes. These same styles can also be found in original images of English sportsmen as well.
As to the large Euro bags, my English friend and mentor used to always say they were marketed to poor shots so they could pack sandwiches ; )

Offline ScottNE

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Re: German Jaeger Hunting Bag Question
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2022, 06:23:39 PM »
Hello, here I have a few more. You have to consider in Germany in the 18th century that hunting was only reserved for the nobility you won't see many simple bags.

Monty

Someone can certainly correct any details I’m getting wrong or omitting here, but as I understand the society of the collection of German states was fairly “dystopian”, but hunters and foresters employed by the petty rulers enjoyed some degree of trust. I’ve read accounts that Jaegers during the American Revolution served a role akin to provost troops in addition to their other duties, and even when troops moved across the German states, posted in the roads and hills surrounding the main body to pick up or pick off men who took their chances making a run for it.

As such, it seems the men who made up that strata of society enjoyed the trust of their lords. Am I correct in classifying them roughly as the era’s equivalent to “middle class”? Surviving Pistor rifles are rather utilitarian, and I’m assuming such rifles often served double duty as military arms and gamekeeper’s tool, at least in the latter half of the 18th century. Wouldn’t there be similarly utilitarian bags to serve the needs of the men who carried them? Even if the model of Jaeger troops had been established by then as separate from the model’s origin of true woodsmen serving a military role that happened to coincide with their civilian occupational skills, casting back a few generations, Caspar Wistar’s rifle looks quite plain, and to my understanding he arrived in Philadelphia in 1717 with the clothes on his back, and the rifle. He wasn’t prosperous, but he had the tool of his trade, being an apprentice-gamekeeper.

Am I completely wrong in the perception that for every fancy rifle there must have been several plain ones used by those gamekeepers and foresters in the lord’s employ? Did foresters and gamekeepers simply draw a rifle (and likely as not a “fancy” one) and accouterments from their employer when/if one was needed?

Which is a long-winded way of asking, I suppose — we know there were plain rifles, so why not an equal number of plain bags?
« Last Edit: October 26, 2022, 06:54:05 PM by ScottNE »

Offline Nailcreek

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Re: German Jaeger Hunting Bag Question
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2022, 04:26:31 AM »
I'd suspect that the "plain" bags probably didn't survive, they were probably just used up over the course of time - worn out like a pair of leather shoes.  As a percentage, the ornate bags were somewhat of a status symbol and were either better taken care of, or just not used that much.

Offline T.C.Albert

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Re: German Jaeger Hunting Bag Question
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2022, 11:32:19 AM »
What were the big bags used for? I had heard the same that James posted above; ie: lunch.
Seriously though it is a bit of a mystery.
Tim A
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