.58 Rifle Sighting In Distance

[Jerry]

I would like to know what most sight in their .58 rifles at? I would like to have your opinions. I wouldn’t feel comfortable placing a kill shot at a distance of over say 50 to 60 yards. Sights are open iron. I personally feel like if I was sighted in at 50 yards, 60 would not be much of a stretch. Also, another factor for me is hunting where I hunt, It would be hard to get a shot much over 50 yards. With these things in mind, what are your thoughts on sighting in at 50 yards? Thanks,
Jerry

[Daryl]

Jerry, sighting a .58 in at 25 yards, dead on, should make it dead on at 50 yards as well, and perhaps 2" low at 75yards, 4" low at 100yards.
If shooting deer at 100yards, you could aim dead middle behind or just above the elbow and have a perfect killing shot, with that zero. As well
as if the deer was any closer, to even as close as 10yards distance.
The point blank range on a normal deer, would be 0 to at least 90yards and likely 100yards (If only 4" low at that range).  Actual shooting is necessary.

[smylee grouch]

I have had several 58s and now a 62 and all were or are sighted about 1+ inches high at 50 with a good and fast for cal. load. This gives me a point blank range to 100+. Those loads in my rifles are also the most accurate. 

[Jerry]

Daryl & smylee grouch, I have been shooting 70 grs 2fg powder, a .562 round ball, and .015 patches. Does this load combination sound okay?

[smylee grouch]

It's OK if it's the most accurate load. Who made the barrel? What twist? If you want point blank range to 100 I would experiment with more powder and a tighter combo. Smooth the crown to make loading a tighter combo easier. JMHO

[Daryl]

Daryl & smylee grouch, I have been shooting 70 grs 2fg powder, a .562 round ball, and .015 patches. Does this load combination sound okay?

When I had the .577 Musketoon, I finally went with 85gr. 2F GOEX. That is in a 48" R of T.  I shot a lot of .562's with 75gr. 2F when first testing, then bought a .570" Lyman mould that cast .574".  Those were the best with 85gr. 2F GOEX.
I was able to raise the rear sight to 200 yards, and smack the 200 meter steel plate, 3 times in a row offhand.
This was when teaching the new owner of that rifle how to shoot it.
 These .574" balls were used with 10 ounce denim patching once I got the patches sorted out. After shoving the patched ball down the length of the starter rod, 2 fingers were all that was needed to get them down to the powder. Although the rifle had progressive depth rifling .008" deeper at the breech than at the muzzle, patches never burned and were reusable.
This .008" deeper at the breech, means the patch and ball did not go to the bottom of the grooves, let alone have compression in the bottom of the grooves, it this load put 5 into 3" at 100 meters off the bench with the rifle's battle sights. the Musketoon only has a 24" bl. The sights are crude and very close together, neither of which is conducive of good accuracy. I was happy
with that way the rifle shot. considering the loose cannon at the throttle.
I am assuming at this weight of ball, the pure lead does obturate.

IMHO, 70gr. 2F is not a good load, if you want the rifle to shoot it's best as well as being a hunting load.
Even my .50 cal. rifle demands more powder & thicker patch than that.

[alacran]

Jerry, I have a .58 Jaeger with a 37-inch Marshal profile Rice barrel. I am also using a .562 ball and 70 grains 2f Goex. However, my patch material is a heavy twill that is .022 thick lubed with bear oil. My barrel is square bottom groove. This load is very accurate of the bench and offhand.
I consider this a lower velocity load. At fifty yards it is dead on, and it is 4.5 inches low at 100 yards.
If you are hunting for white tails in the Midwest this load would be more than adequate out to 100 yards.
However, I do not consider it a hunting load. I do not use it as a hunting load. I use the same ball patch combination, but I use 100 grains of 2f Goex.
This is a very accurate load. It is dead on at 100 yards and abut 5 inches high at 50 yards and dead on at 25 yards. I consider this point-blank range load for my rifle. it is a very powerful load.
The rifle has open sights if you want to hit at 100 yards just practice at 100 yards. The closer ranges will take care of themselves.

[Jeff Murray]

My 58 has a gain twist barrel.  I shoot a 570 ball with .020 ticking for a patch.  Sight in for large game ranged from 80 to 140 grains of 2F.  I used 130 grains of 2F on a buffalo hunt.  Would probably drop it back to 90 to 120 for smaller game.  It is easy to misjudge range when out unless you are on a stand and have pegged markers for various ranges from your stand.  I agree with Daryl that 70 grains is not an optimum hunting load.  You might also consider what charge you can shoot comfortably to avoid the infamous recoil flinch.  Your ball and powder combined will create some noticeable recoil so you need to be comfortable with the load you ultimately choose.

[Daryl]

Too, rifle design is MOST important when it comes to your ability to absorb recoil without adverse effects.
Hooked butt plates are synonymous for inflicting pain with heavy loads. I would think that 130gr. might be
close to the upper limit, considering a 285gr. ball (.575") depending on the shooter's stature.

[Jeff Murray]

Big yeah.  I am skinny and the 140 grain load beat me up pretty good shooting off of the bench.  I feel testing from the bench is the best way to determine the load the rifle likes.  When actually hunting, I did not feel the recoil of the 130 grain load, which I have found to be typical with all my actual shots on game.  However you hunt, stand, spot and stalk etc., practice with your preferred load that way.

[Dphariss]

Too, rifle design is MOST important when it comes to your ability to absorb recoil without adverse effects.
Hooked butt plates are synonymous for inflicting pain with heavy loads. I would think that 130gr. might be
close to the upper limit, considering a 285gr. ball (.575") depending on the shooter's stature.

Most American ML designs top out at 54 caliber or less for comfort. Including most of the Hawken (actual copies) unless really heavy. There were several reasons why most American rifles were under 50 caliber.
I would try 100 gr of FFF for a hunting load. If this does not promote hard fouling it will give a pretty flat trajectory. This is important unless you have a laser range finder. Where I live its easy to misjudge distances out under the “Big Sky”.  So higher velocity is your friend in some areas of North America. Unless hunting Something like Buffalo, Moose or Elk a 50 caliber is a good choice for most people.
Its probably 600-800 yards to anything like a tree from where this is taken and thats over by a creek.

[Jeff Murray]

Lyman's Black Powder Manual gives specs on a 58 caliber shooting a .560 ball.  Powder was GOEX 2F.  Barrel was 32 inches long.  Lyman shows a velocity of 1115fps for their 70 grain charge which is relatively slow for a round ball..  They show 1295fps for 100 grains and 1402 for 120 grains.  My measured results while sighting in my 58 with a 36 inch barrel and a 570 ball were 1660fps for 120 grains of GOEX.  The velocity difference was affected by barrel length, and possibly how tight the patch/ball combo was but every gun is different.  This may give you some idea for developing your hunting load.  The size and nature of your intended game would affect your choice as well.

[Jerry]

Each one contributed excellent additional insight on target and hunting load development. I will continue to develop loads for my .58 keeping this information in mind. Thanks To All, Jerry

[Daryl]

Goex 2F of the 2010 era was considerably more energetic than the powder used in the Lyman book.
My 24" bl. Musketoon made 1,308fps with 75gr. 2F GOEX, a .0215" ticking patch and a .562' ball. This velocity wasn't met by Lyman until they
were up around 110gr. 2F. My 48" twist rifle actually preferred 85gr. 2F GOEX and a .574" ball and 10- ounce denim I measure at .021" compressed.

[hanshi]

Speaking of the .54 (more or less the limit?) a load of 60 grns of 3F is the target load in the one I own.  I don't have a .58 so the .54 has always had to do.  Recoil is there with the hunting load I used when I used to hunt deer, but with a weight of about 10.5 lbs it's barely noticeable to me.  I killed deer with 110 grains of Goex 3F which gave between 1700 fps and 1800 fps out of a 33" barrel.  The hunting load shoots point blank at least to 100 yards.  A bit higher shot at 50 yds than I prefer but it won't miss a soccer ball or a deer.

[Pukka Bundook]

Jerry,
All good advice above, but just want to say when I got my Jim Chambers Mark Silver kit in .58, Jim recommended 70 grains 2F and this is all I used.
I hunted about 9 years straight with that rifle, used it on whitetails and mule deer and do not think I collected more than a couple of balls. All others passed right through.
One muley doe was shot in the chest facing me, and the ball exited her ham.
I used a .562" ball, and old Irish linen pillow -case as patching. lubed with deer tallow. V accurate.
Yes, if going out specifically for elk I would load heavier, but moose are easy to shoot through when sideways on.

All the best,
Richard.

[Dphariss]

Goex 2F of the 2010 era was considerably more energetic than the powder used in the Lyman book.
My 24" bl. Musketoon made 1,308fps with 75gr. 2F GOEX, a .0215" ticking patch and a .562' ball. This velocity wasn't met by Lyman until they
were up around 110gr. 2F. My 48" twist rifle actually preferred 85gr. 2F GOEX and a .574" ball and 10- ounce denim I measure at .021" compressed.

Goex had some serious problems with ingredient purity and contaminated water until be finally blew part of the Moosic plant into town and then moved to LA. When shooting BPCR and using a drop tube you could count on throwing away about 10% of the contents of any can since it was tuned to dust. It also required load development for every different lot.  There is a lot more to this  but this is all the typing I feel like doing.
There velocities with C&H in their first book was a real eye opener. And a lesson on  why making propellant powders in a blasting powder plant was a bad idea.

[Dphariss]

I tend to heavier loads. If you are shooting through deer end ways its probably due to low impact velocity or a ball that is a little hard. At least in my experience with 50-54-58 calibers. I have shot a deer endways with a 54 that almost went out the back. Been 40 years or so ago and don’t recall the distance. 100 gr of FFF GOEX. I shot one at 40+- yards with my English pattern rifle with a 662 ball 140 gr FF Swiss that made about 30” or so but it passed through the hard tissue beside the wind pipe and flattened back 1/2 way.  Massive damage to the heart but did not exit. Still have it out in the shop someplace. Still has hair imprint on the ball. Staring velocity is 1600. Pure lead balls that get pretty flat also will tend to do some strange tracks in the critter.  I prefer balls under 62 to start at 1800 or so the give a 120-130 yard point blank on deer, elk. I do not consider heavy loads to be a big factor in shooting game other than the trajectory is flatter. However, if shooting something with large teeth and claws with an attitude it might help with stopping power at “ I had to shoot in self-defense ranges”.