Mainspring Tempering Trouble

[bluenoser]

Am I seeing two "half cock" notches on that tumbler?  Does the lower one keep the hammer just clear of the nipple?

[Daryl]

Looks like it. I didn't notice before.

[bluenoser]

You are up early Daryl.
Merry Christmas to you, Taylor and yours.
Also, a very merry Christmas to one and all

[JBulitz]

Bluenoser:  Yes- this may be long-winded, but this lock had a series of issues (indicated in part by that notch) which likey occurred in the following order:
The hammer screw was broken off, so somebody had taken the tumbler out and annealed it so that the shank could be peened in order to retain the hammer.  After doing this, the shank of the tumbler actually twisted (being dead-soft) through the stress of falling on the nipple, which must have shortened the stroke of the hammer considerably.  Since the hammer was peened on, the tumbler couldn't be removed... So Bubba the gunsmith simply filed into the edge of the lockplate in order to file a new full-cock notch and extend the hammer stroke (pictured).  This probably resulted in over-compression of the original spring, which probably caused its breakage.
So- that extra notch you see in the tumbler was the original half-cock notch, thus the original full-cock notch then became the new half-cock ahead of the latest one to be filed by the last gunsmith.  I've since re-tapped for a new hammer bolt, squared the tumbler shank up and re- case-hardened it, and patched that ugly notch in the lock plate.  The latest notch arrangement actually functions fine as it was intended it to, but a new tumbler will likely be in order down the line.

[JBulitz]

Here it is following those external repairs.

[rich pierce]

Nice save.

[bluenoser]

In an earlier life, I owned a construction business with a partner whose motto was " no problems - only solutions".  It sounds as though you live by the same creed and I am thoroughly impressed.

[Bob Roller]

Am I seeing two "half cock" notches on that tumbler?  Does the lower one keep the hammer just clear of the nipple?

On some top of the line English locks there ARE 3 positions and the first one is for loading and the compression of the column of air that forces the fine grained powder up under the flash channel from the nipple..The the second one is the "safety"or "Half Cocked".the third one obviuosly should fire the cap.This can easil be made to use with a single trigger OR a set trigger that holds the sear UP and must be set so the lock can be cocked.
A few months ago a perfect picture of one of these 3 position English locks was shown and I will admit even after decades of lock making and studying the works of past masters I had never seen one.The circular geometry of the tumbler and the speed furnished by a heavily pre loaded mainspring guaranteed its working right.
   That is a good looking mainspring and the only thing I'd do would be to bevel the edges.
Bob Roller

[bluenoser]

Thanks Bob for that explanation.  That is something I had not previously heard of.

[Bob Roller]

To make this 3 position tumbler IF I were going to,I would start at the first position and work up from there,
The lock would have to be in the gun minus the mainspring and then the first or loading position established with the nipple in position.After that the rest is easy.Also I have seen this stone age repair work on a number locks,usually low end ones seen on what my grandfather called,"a common rifle". He owned a hardware store and he said those guns as new sold for $7 and caps were about 15 cents for 100 and powder was dipped out of a keg with a flour scoop for about 10 cents a pound.He was born in 1873 and died in November of 1972.
Bob Roller

[Jim Kibler]

If the spring works, that is what counts, but it looks as though it's pretty well collapsed on itself for a good distance from the bend.  This is even the case at rest.  This limits the working area of the spring.  A better solution would be to have the inside profile be a little bit more of a "v" shape.

Jim