Antique Rifle Ram Rods

[fishdfly]

Were antiques rifle ram rods threaded to accept accessories?

Looking in the Log Cabin Catalog there are the following for sale

Cleaning jags
Fouling scraper
Patch puller worm
Breech plug scraper
Breech brushes
Bronze bore brushes
Bore swabs

Was wondering, if they were threaded, what the average person would keep in his bag or at his home place to maintain his rifle and to take care of oops.  Or is the above list a modern marketing thing?

Thanks

fdf

Thanks

[rich pierce]

Many ramrods were tipped with tapered rolled sheet iron tips, brazed or welded, threaded for a worm which was the most common accessory.

[Daryl]

Worms were common, for the rifles too.

[fishdfly]

Thanks, worms gotta eat too.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

A worm with tow will accomplish all of the jobs that that collection of accessories will do.  I personally keep a cleaning jag and a ball puller with each of my rifles, and they will fit onto my ramrod if I need them in a pinch, but I prefer to use a range rod for cleaning, and especially for ball pulling.  At the head of our trail walk, I hung a range rod with a T handle threaded for 8 x 32, in a tree and at about chest height, I screwed a plastic snap top box with a wooden insert that contains a collection of ball pullers so that we can service everything from 40 cal to 77 cal right there on the trail.  And the box is literally full of pulled balls of all sizes which tells me that the rod is used a fair bit.
I submit that the collection of accessories you listed are a figment of someone's marketing imagination and most of those items are redundant. Yes, I know a lot of folks buy the stuff anyway...whatever makes your stick float.

[Daryl]

I agree with Taylor.  The bore swabs, fouling scraper, breech scraper, breech brushes and bronze bore brushes are not needed for most people. While a worm would work with cleaning patches, I prefer to use a jag. I also have a ball screw that will retrieve a "lost" cleaning patch, thus the jag for cleaning and the ball screw are the only necessary tools for me.

[Panzerschwein]

Worm of various types were common. Some were fairly ornate, others as simple as piece of wire bent into a coil and held to the end of the rod by self-tightening friction ala a Chinese finger trap.

[Dphariss]

The loose patch on a worm as shown below will over run the fowling and then bunch up to fit tighter on the return stroke. This tends to pull the fouling out the muzzle. I use a tighter fitting jag after a few patches on the worm. Its in the bag since I was shooting another 54 yesterday and I only have one 54 jag for some reason.

The worm is from TOW. The pin punch is for pushing out the barrel pins. Brass extension is for the ball puller if needed. Shop made turn screw.  A patch keeps down the rattle.  Kibler Colonial “tool box”.

[Daryl]

Well "appointed".

[Top Jaw]

I know this is partly off topic, but I would not try to pull a ball with the rifle’s loading rod and an extension.  They can be a tuff tug.  And the gun’s loading/cleaning rod is a poor tool to accomplish this. Although in an emergency in deer camp, it “might” work. 

A longer range rod, and preferably a stainless steel one, is a much better option.  But the best tool of all is a CO2 discharger that goes through the vent.  Unless the ball is blocking the vent.  Then pulling is your path forward - or removing the breech plug.  My point, I would only attempt to pull a dry ball with a good long stout (hopefully metal) range rod, that I can get two hands on.  So I wouldn’t necessarily carry a ball puller jag in my patch box out hunting.  But in my range box.

[RAT]

The tapered sheet iron tip seems to be the most common. These were on the end of the rod that goes into the ramrod hole... not on the end you see at the muzzle when the rod is stored. That's why they were tapered... to match the tapering of the rod. Here are the measurements from the "ETC" Hawken rifle owned by the MT Historical Society...

Ramrod Overall Length: 38 13/16"
Diameter at Middle Area of Ramrod: 0.368"
Diameter at Large End of Tapered Iron Tip: 0.288"
Diameter at Small End of Tapered Iron Tip: 0.230"
Length of Tapered Iron Tip: 2.150"

The tapered iron tip is made from flat sheet iron, rolled to a tapered cylinder, and with the seam brazed with brass. It is threaded, but I didn't have anything to measure the threads.

This is consistent with others I've experienced.

Regarding the "ETC" Hawken... The rifle is .50 caliber. The other (muzzle) end of the rod has a brass ferule. It is made from seamless brass tubing, flared at the end to form a trumpet (bell shape), and is open on the end. In other words, wood is exposed at the end. It is held in place with a wood wedge driven into a slot cut into the end of the rod. The muzzle end brass ferule measures 0.442" in diameter (at the big end) and is 0.661" long.

A ferule was added to the muzzle end of the rod to prevent splitting. Sometimes it would match the metal type of the muzzle cap, but sometimes it didn't. The Jaeger book shows some closed off with a disc of matching metal brazed or soldered into the end, but a lot of them were left with the wood exposed. Cupping the muzzle end was common. I don't believe these were ever threaded... but never say never.

A plain wooded end would be more common on most rods. I think the fancy tips were used mostly on fancy guns.

I'd bet money that if an original rifle has a ramrod with a solid brass, iron, of silver tip... at the muzzle end... that's threaded... it's a modern replacement.

[RAT]

Here's a photo of the iron tip on the "ETC" Hawken rifle.


Here's a photo of the muzzle end.


After checking the photo again, I confirmed that there are 2 wooden wedges holding the muzzle tip onto the rod.


There's been a lot of discussion about rod tips on this site over the years. Using the search tool will give you a whole bunch more information.

[Daryl]

I know this is partly off topic, but I would not try to pull a ball with the rifle’s loading rod and an extension.  They can be a tuff tug.  And the gun’s loading/cleaning rod is a poor tool to accomplish this. Although in an emergency in deer camp, it “might” work. 

A longer range rod, and preferably a stainless steel one, is a much better option.  But the best tool of all is a CO2 discharger that goes through the vent.  Unless the ball is blocking the vent.  Then pulling is your path forward - or removing the breech plug.  My point, I would only attempt to pull a dry ball with a good long stout (hopefully metal) range rod, that I can get two hands on.  So I wouldn’t necessarily carry a ball puller jag in my patch box out hunting.  But in my range box.

As Taylor noted in his post, we have just such a stainless rod with ball screws of many sizes available for pulling balls on the trail.
When not on the trail, we use the rifle's rod, but it usually takes the 2 of us to do it, whether a .45 cal. or .69. Oh yeah - usually me.