Author Topic: John Hills rifle  (Read 9591 times)

Offline smart dog

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John Hills rifle
« on: November 17, 2022, 01:57:19 AM »
Hi,
I had a bout with Covid last August and although my symptoms were very mild, I still suffered extreme fatigue and brain fog.  I could do no shop work for 6 weeks because of tiredness and a horrible tendency to make mindless mistakes.  Anyway, I am recovered and back to work.  However, I am way behind schedule so have a lot of projects stacked up this winter and next spring. This is the first of my winter projects, a John Hills inspired rifle.  Hills was the first documented gunsmith in Vermont and there are at least 2 surviving rifles he made during the last decade of the 18th century while living in Charlotte, Vermont.  You can see them in Shumway's collection of "Longrifles of Note vol. 2."  I'll not post photos of them to avoid violating copyright protections.  My barrel is a Rice classic Dickert in 54 caliber cut back to 41".  The original rifle I am working from had a 43" barrel but the owner of my version is fairly short so the shorter barrel fits him better.  I've proportioned everything to adjust for that shorter barrel. The lock is a Chambers early Ketland modified slightly to better match Hills' work.  The mounts will be brass and I have components that can be modified to look right.  The only thing I am still missing is a trigger guard that will work.  I think I am going to have to cobble one together.  The red maple stock is from Allen Martin and is superb.  It is as hard as sugar maple but the figure is fantastic.  Thank you Allen!!!  Anyway, here is where I am.  The barrel is in, along with the barrel tang, and the ramrod hole is drilled.  The ramrod hole is a full 3/8" to accommodate a stout 3/8" ramrod but it means the space at the breech is really packed with stuff.  It is not drilled parallel with the bore of the barrel, rather it is follows the swamp of the barrel more or less so the web of wood remains fairly constant at 1/8-5/32" wide.
   
 














dave
« Last Edit: November 17, 2022, 02:06:36 AM by smart dog »
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Offline ed lundquist

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Re: John Hills rifle
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2022, 02:17:28 AM »
Will be a handsome rifle, I look forward to following along. Studying.

Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: John Hills rifle
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2022, 04:42:28 PM »
A grand start, Dave!  In my mind, I am wondering how you bored the ramrod hole parallel to the swamp!

I will hold off sending you that lock for repair, as you sound up to your ears already!
It is in no rush, so will see how you are doing sometime in the future Dave.

Very best!

Richard.

Offline smart dog

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Re: John Hills rifle
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2022, 05:41:02 PM »
Hi Richard,
Send the lock on whenever you would like.  I intended to work on it this winter and if I need to replace any parts using those from TRS or Kevin Blackley, it might be good to have plenty of time.  To make the ramrod groove and hole roughly follow the profile of the barrel, I first trim the bottom of the stock to a straight line that is about equidistant from the muzzle and breech.  I usually let the line get a little closer to the barrel at the breech.  Then I make sure the bottom is flat and true to that line and cut the ramrod groove with a 3/8" round router bit in a router mounted in a router table. The bottom of the stock is down on the table and the router cuts a groove parallel with my line.  Then I just drill the hole using the groove as a guide.

dave 
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Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: John Hills rifle
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2022, 07:00:13 AM »
I like it!  Nice work.

Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: John Hills rifle
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2022, 05:13:04 PM »
OK on the lock, Dave.

Now you mention it, I know Hershel H. does the same with the channel.
When I first read your post, I imagined a ramrod Hole with a curve!....that would be very clever stuff! LOL.
Looking forward to updates on this.

Kind regards,
R.

Offline smart dog

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Re: John Hills rifle
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2022, 01:36:01 AM »
Hi,
I got the lock installed this afternoon.  I am always impressed by folks like Mike Brooks who can install a lock in an hour or less. I've built a lot of guns but it still takes me a full afternoon to inlet a lock.  I do it piecemeal, which works for me but I make no claims that way is "the" way to do it.  Anyway, I mark my barrel for the vent hole but I don't drill it.  Drilling the vent hole is one of the last tasks I do on a gun. I position the hole about 1/8" in font of the breech plug and usually in the middle or slightly lower on the barrel flat.  Then I inlet the bolster on the lock plate so the plate will sit down on the wood. Before doing any of that , however, I trim the side panel such that I only have 1/16" extra wood needed to fit the lock.  I hate inletting through a lot of excess wood.

With the plate flat on the wood, I trace it and inlet it.  I using blacking to make sure it sits in the mortise evenly.  The I place a close fitting drill in the tumbler hole and smack it with a hammer.  That marks the tumbler position in the stock.
   




I center punch the mark, measure the depth of the tumbler below the lock plate, and drill a hole in the stock that depth and a little larger diameter than the spindle. 
 





Next, I place the tumbler in the hole and trace the arc of its motion on the stock.




Then I cut away that tracing the depth of the tumbler body using a big drill, a router bit on my Dremel Destroyer, and chisels.




Then I put punch holes for the bridle screws through the lock plate, drill them to the depth of the bridle screws, and inlet the bridle.
   



I follow that procedure to inlet all the other parts.  I use a large drill to make the hole for the sear and clear away space for the parts using chisels and my Dremel Destroyer. It does help to have inlet a certain lock before so you know what the mortise should look like.  I put the mainspring in last and try to remove just enough wood for it to fit and function.  I use a 1/4" drill marked for the depth of the spring to remove much of the wood.  Then flat chisels and my Dremel Destroyer. Note I try to preserve as much wood as possible under the lower oblique flat of the barrel but I almost always break through to the barrel channel a little bit unless I narrow the mainspring or use a skinny barrel. If modern-made locks had taller studs that fit under the lock plate bolster such that the upper leaf of the spring is lower on the lock plate, that would not happen.


 




I still need to clean up some fuzzies of wood and will eventually dress up the mortise further later in the game. John Hills, like so many other early American gunsmiths probably hogged wood out of the lock mortise to get the job done quickly. I take my cue from those forgotten British musket "setter uppers" who managed much better despite making thousands of muskets quickly and cheaply.

I realized that I failed to mention the lock is a Chambers early Ketland but the plate was modified to more closely copy Hills' work.  As a result, there is very little extra space at the tail of the lock.

dave
« Last Edit: November 21, 2022, 01:39:44 AM by smart dog »
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Offline LynnC

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Re: John Hills rifle
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2022, 01:47:43 PM »
I picked up a couple of things to try from your approach to lock inletting. Thanks for the detailed description.
The price of eggs got so darn high, I bought chickens......

Offline smart dog

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Re: John Hills rifle
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2022, 11:04:59 PM »
Hi,
The butt plate is on.  I modified an English fowler butt plate from Janet Goehring to create a typical John Hills butt plate.  I call it Hills' "angry man" plate.  I'll leave you to guess why I do that.  These butt plates are a bit more of a challenge than those typically on long rifles but they are not hard.
 


This is the set up I use to start the process.  The wooden leg vise holds securely so the end of the gun is at my chest level.  I anchor the other end to my sliding deadman using a bench dog.



Later, when I want the stock held more horizontal, I'll use a pattern maker's vise to hold it.  I trim the end of the stock as close to my tracing of the inside edges of the butt plate as I can and also trim off a lot of excess wood on the sides, top, and bottom.  Then I position where the top of the radiused shoulder will come on the stock and cut down and across to make a shoulder.



I then start inletting the top return starting at the heel and working forward until it is done.  Because the return continually narrows toward its end, you can move it forward as you fit it without creating any gaps.  That makes it easy to get a tight fit all around.











Finally, I drill for the two screws and mount them and I am done for now.







dave
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Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: John Hills rifle
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2022, 10:56:28 PM »
That buttplate looks nice!  I've generally inlet fowling piece buttplates in a similar manner.  I did more fully inlet a silver buttplate once as I was concerned it would dent and deform.

Great job and I think it will look just right

Jim

Offline smart dog

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Re: John Hills rifle
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2022, 02:28:12 AM »
Hi Jim,
Thank you.  I have an original fowler by Joseph Heylin that was silver mounted and he inlet the butt plate just as you described.  It was fully backed by wood all the way because it could dent.  I can imagine how you must have inlet that beautiful silver butt plate on the Harman-inspired fowler you posted years ago.  I think Mike Brook's comment on that gun was, "that is the way they should be made".

dave
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Offline smart dog

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Re: John Hills rifle
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2022, 02:04:54 AM »
Hi,
Got a lot of shaping done.   It should be a nice slim elegant gun.  I use chisels, a plane, pattern makers rasps, and a Japanese saw to remove a lot of wood quickly. 
 






My current problem is what to do with the cheek piece.  The cheek pieces on the 2 John Hills rifles shown in Shumway's "Long Rifles of Note Vol 2" are misshapen ugly lumps.  My apprentice, Maria, heard me groaning as I sat on my stool yesterday looking at photos of the original gun and trying to pencil in some acceptable design on the stock.  I was not succeeding.  The owner of the gun punted by telling me me he trusted my artistic abilities to make it look like Hills' work but nicer.  Great.   :-\  I'll figure out something.



I'll think about it tomorrow.

dave

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Offline davec2

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Re: John Hills rifle
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2022, 07:50:54 AM »
David,

Not much help here I know, but to use an old expression, "beauty may only be skin deep...but ugly goes clear to the bone !"    Just say'in

Good luck !
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Offline smart dog

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Re: John Hills rifle
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2022, 03:37:20 PM »
Hi Dave,
Thanks.  An ugly gun is like having a hair in the back of the throat.   :P

dave
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Offline smart dog

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Re: John Hills rifle
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2022, 02:29:12 AM »
Hi Guys,
A bit more done today.  I installed the barrel lugs, inlet, and drilled them for 5/64" pins.  One of the Hills rifles appears to have a brass nose band, while the other has a muzzle cap.  I opted for the cap and had just the right size in my stock of soldered muzzle caps.  I have no idea if the original rifle had a soldered or one-piece cap, or even one open at the front.  I installed a simple cap with soldered front.  Then I shaved down the forestock.  I do that by marking lines on the stock that define flats I will plane.  This is the method I taught my blind friend, Josh, to use to shape fore stocks evenly.  With a square, I draw a lines parallel to the top edges of the barrel channel and ramrod groove.  In this case, I chose a line 1/4" down from the edge of the barrel channel and 3/8" up from the edge of the ramrod groove. 
     


Then I plane a flat along the top edge of the barrel channel about 45 degrees and meeting my line but remaining about 1/16" away from the barrel channel.  Note, I already coated the barrel channel with a varnish thin layer of stained AcraGlas.  I do that to greatly strengthen (3 to 10 times the strength of uncoated wood) the barrel channel walls. 



Then I rotate the stock and plane the flat along the ramrod channel. Next I plane down the crest between the two flats.  This removes wood very quickly and creates the profile I am looking for.  It only takes about 20 minutes per side to get it done.






Then I inletted the forward ramrod pipes and called it a day.

 





dave
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Offline HighUintas

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Re: John Hills rifle
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2022, 06:25:45 AM »
Looks great, Dave.

What would you say influenced the style of John Hill's rifles? To my very untrained eye, the profile makes me think of an English or French Fowler.

Offline smart dog

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Re: John Hills rifle
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2022, 01:55:52 AM »
Hi HU,
Oh man, that is a great question and I do not have a satisfying answer. The Hills family was initially based in Goshen, CT not far from the NY border.  Their work varied a lot but they often used brass mounts that clearly were inspired by the Dutch in the Hudson River Valley.  Their extensive use of well figured sugar maple also suggests a strong Hudson River influence.  However, their stocks were often more like typical New England products that showed strong French influence.  It is really hard to place them in any regional shoe box.  In many ways, they did their own thing.  HU, at one time during the early years of the Rev War the gun trade in Goshen, a tiny rural town, employed up to 30 workers.  They apparently made everything including barrels and locks, and unlike the Lancaster rifle makers, actually produced a lot of muskets for the patriot cause.  John Hills moved to Pomfret, Vermont in 1776. He was active in militia in the area but also may have been making muskets for the local patriots.  There is no record of his production at Pomfret but he was identified as a gunsmith by the community.  After the war, he moved to Charlotte (pronounced "shar LOT")  Vermont and at least 6 guns , including 2 rifles, survive from his time there.  He had a homestead on what is now called Hills Point Road and lived on Hills Point on Lake Champlain.  He was always called "Captain Hills" because of his Rev War service in militia and was a prominent citizen of Charlotte.  I've visitied his grave in Barber Hill cemetery, Charlotte, VT several times. I used to live in that town during the 1980s.

dave       
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Offline smart dog

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Re: John Hills rifle
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2022, 02:51:22 AM »
Hi,
Got more done today.  All the ramrod pipes are in.  I used cast brass pipes sold for English fowlers.  They are similar to some used by Hills.  However, the decorative shield on the rear pipe will be files away to create a simpler more rustic design consistent with Hills' work.  There is a real advantage to using those pipes because the tubes are identical including the rear pipe. That makes inletting the rear pipe a breeze.  I first inlet a forward pipe in the space for the tube section, and then just inlet the rear pipe tang.  It really simplifies the task.
   




All the pipes are in and pinned with 1/16" diameter spring steel rod.   Note the barrel lugs show in the ramrod channel.



Some folks always ask if that is OK and it certainly is.  You fill see it on many originals, including high-end English sporting guns, and is almost impossible to avoid if you are making a slim gun with a narrow web of wood separating the barrel from the ramrod.

I resolved the cheek piece.  I decide to form it into a small rectangular shape that I call "duck's lips".  It has some of the feel of Hiils' cheek pieces but avoids their clunky awkwardness.

 




I pared away a lot of wood and the gun is taking shape.







dave
« Last Edit: December 05, 2022, 03:46:49 AM by smart dog »
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Offline Wingshot

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Re: John Hills rifle
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2022, 06:32:57 AM »
It is not drilled parallel with the bore of the barrel, rather it is follows the swamp of the barrel more or less so the web of wood remains fairly constant at 1/8-5/32" wide.
   
Loving this, very cool project and I was wondering if you could elaborate some on just how you drilled the ramrod to follow the swamped barrel?

Offline HighUintas

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Re: John Hills rifle
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2022, 08:34:43 AM »
Wingshot, he explains it in post #3, however, I had a hard time understanding exactly what he did from reading the explanation.

Dave, thanks for that background information. It is very interesting and I can see how his work may have just been an amalgamation of design features from other regions, which I would call doing his own thing.

Offline smart dog

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Re: John Hills rifle
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2022, 04:07:42 PM »
Hi and thank you for looking,
Wingshot, making the ramrod hole follow the profile of the barrel is easy to explain but it does take some finesse to do.  First, I make sure the sides of the still squared stock are perpendicular to the bottom so I can run one side against a fence on a router table. Then I draw straight lines on both sides of the stock that are about 1/8" to 3/16" below the barrel at the muzzle and 1/8" below the barrel at the breech so they roughly follow the barrel profile but are straight lines and do not curve with the barrel. Those lines represent where the top of the ramrod will rest in the stock. I use those lines to mark out parallel lines indicating where I want the bottom of the stock to be on the squared blank giving myself a little extra stock depth to work with.  For example on this gun with a 3/8" diameter ramrod, I wanted the bottom to be 3/8" + 1/4" below the lines under the barrel.  Then I bandsaw and plane the bottom of the stock to be true to those lines.  Now I have the bottom of the stock parallel with the lines representing the top of the ramrod.  Now I can rest the bottom on my router table and use a fence as a guide to rout a 3/8" diameter groove to the depth of the top of the ramrod and it will roughly follow the outside profile of the barrel rather than the bore.  A word of warning, I never do this unless I drew plans of the gun making sure the ramrod hole has plenty of wood under it at the breech to fit the trigger plate and trigger guard, particularly if the barrel has a wide and strongly tapered breech.  The end result of doing this is a nice slim fore stock yet still sufficient space between the barrel and ramrod to fit the forward lock bolt.

dave       
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Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: John Hills rifle
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2022, 04:58:51 PM »
The ramrod following the barrel is pretty much vital for a fowling piece with a barrel of an appreciable size.  Otherwise the forestock ends up being so deep.  I think this is a fault of many smoothbores you see being made today.

I even use this process on some rifles I build.  In fact, this is the case with our production "woodsrunner" kits.

Jim
« Last Edit: December 05, 2022, 05:19:12 PM by Jim Kibler »

Offline Tim Crosby

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Re: John Hills rifle
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2022, 05:19:21 PM »
 Thanks for taking the time to document this build Dave. Not an easy thing to do; keeping track of and makeing sure you get the Pix you need, plus doing the write-ups all take up time.

   Tim

Offline Wingshot

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Re: John Hills rifle
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2022, 12:30:14 AM »
Thanks for that detailed explanation. I’m still digesting it but I think I understand what you’re describing. I’m building an SMR from a blank and want it as skinny as it can get it.

Offline smart dog

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Re: John Hills rifle
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2022, 02:37:03 AM »
Hi Wingshot,
Perhaps you might be confused because my router is mounted under my router table and the bit comes up like a table saw.  So I want the bottom of my stock blank, which is resting on the table to be parallel with the line for the ramrod I drew under the barrel so I can cut a groove parallel to that line. 
   


dave
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