My Apprentice and Our English Fowler Project

[Lone Wolf]

Good info for sure!  If the lug on the trigger guard is in the way of the trigger plate, would moving the lug have been an option?  I relocated the lug on a Lancaster trigger guard some time ago by cutting it off and soldering it in its new location.  7 years and many hunts later, the solder joint has held (knocking on the nearest piece of wood as soon as I finish typing this).

[smart dog]

Hi Lone Wolf,
Yes, the lug could be moved and another attached.  I've done that often when modifying guards.  However, that still would have meant making a new longer trigger plate because we cannot move the trigger forward.  That would change its position relative to the sear bar of the lock. So the choice would have been, make a new trigger plate and reattach the lug on the guard versus lengthen the trigger slot in the existing trigger plate and counter bore the tang bolt.  The latter is a much easier and quicker solution for us.

dave

[smart dog]

Hi,
Bit of a bump in the road for Maria and I.  I had a really bad episode of arthritis in my left knee that hindered me pretty badly.  My old-age ailments are not liking the roller coaster winter weather of deep freeze and then record heating that we experienced the last 8 years.  In addition, Maria contracted bacterial pneumonia.  It was relatively mild but both of us slowed down a lot these last few weeks.  But we are back at it, weather and transportation to my shop permitting.  It's English fowler butt plate time!  Her previous inletting tasks were good preparation for this one. I know a lot of folks are intimidated by these butt plates but they are not really difficult as long as you pay attention to the details.  The first step is preparing the butt plate, making sure there is some draft on the tang edges and that the edges of the face plate that fit against the stock are flat and true.  Next, we hold the butt plate against the side of the stock and trace the profile of the face on the stock.  Usually, we would remove the extra wood with a bandsaw.  In this case, she needed the full length of the stock blank to achieve her desired length of pull. We had to remove so little wood so she just rasped it away using an 8"  Liogier cabinet makers rasp. 
 


Next we want to shape the step and radius at the heel.  We traced the curve on the stock and she cut down at the border of the step and in to remove the extra wood.



We use a Japanese saw that cuts on the pull stroke.  They are superior to anything else for this kind of task.  Then Maria uses her cabinet makers rasp to shape and round the step.



In addition, we locate the position of the lug under the tang on the stock.  Inlet it using drills, small flat chisels, and a router bit in my Dremel.  We make sure the forward edge of the mortise has extra room to allow the plate to move forward in the slot.  The mortise for the lug does not have to be precise.



Next is using the cabinet makers rasp and my dragon rasp to fit face of the plate against the stock enough to make a good tracing of the tang. The tang is inlet with the realization that it will gradually move forward in the mortise as the face of the but plate is fitted to the end of the stock.  We inlet the rear of the tang first and move forward but even after the entire tang is cut in, it will always need to be moved forward.



This is why the classic English plates that narrow consistently from heel to front are relatively easy to inlet.  As you move them forward, they just close up any gaps.  Butt plate returns that have swells are much more difficult.

Here is where we are.  Maria is now using inletting black to guide her and the plate is almost in.  It needs to move more forward but not very much.
 







In the process of inletting the plate, Maria and I got into a conversation about history and all the while she kept distractedly brushing blacking on the plate. She covered the plate and got it all over her hands. We laughed and then cleaned the plate and started again.



More to come.  Next up is finishing the butt plate inlet and beginning shaping of the butt stock.

dave

[ScottH]

you don't have to be distracted to get inletting black all over, just saying.   

[mountainman]

Thanks again for sharing! I always look forward to the next post, sometimes I will go back and start at the beginning and read it all over again up to the current post  ( I know it just me )  But I do really enjoy following along on this thread.

[smart dog]

Hi,
Another milestone day.  The butt plate is in and we are starting to shape the butt stock.  Maria finished inletting the butt plate.  It came out very well considering she has never inlet a butt plate before.  Let me be clear, I guide Maria, sometimes I step in and show her how to better use a tool or make a slight course correction.  But then I get out of her way and go off and work on other guns.  She does 99% of the work.  Sometimes I watch her struggle with a task, I let her figure it out, and only step in when there is a really good teachable moment that enables her to make a big step forward.  Then I leave her to it.

 




After inletting it, we drilled for the screw holes and installed the screws.








Not bad for a first butt plate inlet.  Next up we began shaping the butt stock using shallow sweeps, gouges, and rasps. This fowler will have a baluster wrist merging with the comb in a radius rather than a seam or crease like a Brown Bess.  First we draw a mark on the side at the comb very slightly above the top of the wrist.  Then we make a mark on the stock about 1" above the toe of the stock at the butt plate.  We draw a straight line through those marks.  This is the initial guideline for the top of the baluster wrist. On top of the comb, we draw lines from the maximum width of the butt plate at the heel to the point of the comb.  We initially make that point blunt and wider than it will ultimately be.  Then Maria chiseled away the appropriate wood until most excess wood was removed.
 


Then she smoothed the cuts using our Liogier gunsmith's rasp.  This tool is superb and its long length allows you to reach the front of the comb without rapping your knuckles on the butt plate.




We do this in stages.  I do not take anything down to a final profile all at once. We work down to that over time, always allowing some room for course corrections. I urge Maria to handle her gun at this point to see how it feels and gain insight about future shaping needs.



I think you can begin to see how elegant this fowler will ultimately be.  We also drilled the stock for the forward lock bolt.  Then use the side plate from Chambers English rifle kit to locate the rear lock plate bolt hol.















dave

[smylee grouch]

This project is really progressing along quite nicely.

[Bob Roller]

Maria is like my young friend Amanda,both have a severe case of being lovely and I talked for an hour last night with my "student",
She has a system in her car that will allow a phone call without any major distractions.Her husband is in Mexico hunting geese and she
was on her way to her parents home on the coast.Pretty and intelligent young women that want to learn outside of the "curve" are a joy and delight to older and fossilizing men.It's amazing what can happen when a geezer stops to make an out of character buy at a grocery store.
Amanda is now 32,older than Maria and hopes to be at the CLA Show in August.She has a sister who is working near Lexington and she said she wanted to see all the fine work our gun makers do.She knows about my lock work and has seen pictures of a some I made,all English styles with the fancy internal mechanisms.
I have arthritis in my right shoulder but so far arthritis strength Tylenol has helped with 2 per day being the current dose.Pneumonia I had but once and do NOT want a repeat at my age.
Bob Roller

[Daryl]

Coming along VERY nicely Maria. You should be proud and your beautiful smile says it all.

[Hank01]

Maria has that look of accomplishment on her face. And rightfully so. That's one fine looking piece she's building. Hope she continues to let her pride of accomplishment show. Looking forward to seeing it finished.

Dave, maybe it's the camera angle but to me it looks like there's a touch of cast in the stock when looking from the butt end forward. Yes, no?

Hank

[smart dog]

Hi Hank,
Thanks for looking.  The stock is straight.  I think the cast in is just an illusion by the camera angle and wood that is still left on the butt stock.  Maria and I have had a bit of a hiatus because of two bad snow storms preventing her getting over to the shop on the days she has off from school.  We will be working today but a lot of it will be spent packing up her tools to ship to the rifle making workshop at Canter's Cave.

dave

[smylee grouch]

The progress on this gun is moving along at a smart pace ( less than 4 months ) compared to a lot of more established seasoned builders. Very good quality work too. Dedication to the job by builder and teacher.

[smart dog]

Hi,
Thank you all for looking and the nice comments about Maria.  She is pretty special.  We spent most of today preparing her tools and then packing them to ship to Ian Pratt.  She should have a good set up for the rifle workshop and a nice nucleus of tools to build on in the future.   We did manage to get going on slimming down the fore stock on her fowler.  I've described this before but I draw two guidelines on the stock.  On this gun one is 1/4" below the top edge of the barrel channel and the other is 5/16" above the edge of the ramrod channel.  Using a block plane, Maria cuts even flats using those guidelines such that the fore stock looks a little like the side of an octagon barrel.

   




She planes to about 1/16" from the barrel on the top facet and leaves about 3/32" for the top of the ramrod channel.  Next she rounds the flats using a pattern maker's rasp.  In about 20 minutes she has one side down almost to final profile.





Willow came in to inspect the work. She is a tough critic.  Eventually, more wood will come off.  As Allen Martin says, we will take off wood until scared, and then take off a little more.

dave

[Pukka Bundook]

Great work Dave, and regarding taking wood off, that is Exactly what Frank House told me!

[Curtis]

My hat's off to both the student and the teacher!  Impressive, clean work.

Curtis

[Dwshotwell]

Ian Pratt and Ken Gahagan are great instructors. She’ll learn a ton from them and that class is just a great atmosphere of hard work, sharing, and fun. Between the three of you that’s a pretty good roster of teachers for an apprentice to study under.

[Pukka Bundook]

David ,
I think some of us would give a right leg for such instruction!
(No use right arm, 'cos then we couldn't do it anyway!)

[Dennis Glazener]

Maria,
May you be rewarded for your dedication to learning the near-forgotten skills that our forefathers used to feed their families. Great craftsmanship is something that you can enjoy for the rest of your life.

All the best to you,
Dennis Glazener
"The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history." — George Orwell

[smart dog]

Hi,
Thank you all for encouraging this project.  The further along this goes the better the experience becomes.  Big long day today.  Maria really pared down the stock.  The first step was finishing shaping the other side of the fore stock.
 


Then she shaped the stock between the lock and rear ramrod pipe. That was 100% pattern maker's rasp work. Next she refined the butt stock.






She used an old spoke shave that was my great great grand father's and probably made in the 1860s.  It was the perfect tool to shape the bottom of the butt stock.  Then she used an old Stanley block plane that was made during the Depression years to shave away wood from the sides of the comb.  The butt stock is quite flat on either side of the comb  based on the original guns we are using for models.



It is a invaluable to have several fine original English fowlers from the 1760s on the bench while building this one. 






Maria took off a lot of wood and began final shaping the lock and wrist.  With my help and the original guns as guides, she made a good start getting the basic profile right.  It will be refined as we go.  A lot of wood needed to come off the throat of the stock and in that process, Maria almost wiped out the mortise for the trigger plate. That is OK.  The plate can be inlet deeper but it it the reason we did not pin the trigger.  We knew the throat would be thinned somewhat. Inletting triggers, trigger plates, and trigger guards, and pinning them in place too early is foolish. Let the stock evolve as you want and place the parts in it rather than let the parts dictate what the stock looks like.
 








The stock is still evolving and will be refined more as we go.  The angle of the baluster wrist still needs work but the fowler is coming out of its shell.  It will be elegant and fits Maria well.





dave

[mountainman]

Wow impressive!! She's doing a great job!! That fowler is turning  out to be a beauty!!

[taterbug]

Yep, definitely an advantage to have originals just laying around, gettin' in the way!

Dave, will you be printing out all these posts to go along with the gun?  A small (or not so small) album documenting the process of course. Unless Maria can show some 'proof', no one will believe she has built that fowler. 

Maybe give her a small mallet to carry around too, just to get the point across?  Or better yet, have her make own 'mallet of persuasion'. Then she can make it whatever size she thinks it needs to be

[Telgan]

It's very pleasing to the eye, just as it is, at this stage

[Bob Gerard]

You guys have come so far, and the gun is really taking shape.
Dave, I didn't know you would not be seeing the gun build through to completion, though it has been a semester already. I am sure Ian and Maria will do it justice.
I can't describe how I would feel having come so far along with a wonderful student on a wonderful project and not to see it completed. Part of being a teacher, I suppose.
Congratulations to the both of you.

[smart dog]

Hi and thanks everyone,

Bob, Maria and I will finish her fowler in my shop.  She will be working on a rifle at the workshop with Ian and Ken.  I believe it will be a copy of RCA #46, the famous Albrecht rifle he probably made in Lititz, PA.  We will finish that rifle in my shop as well.

dave

[Turkeycreek]

The budding gunsmith has become a blooming gunsmith. Fantastic work Maria!
TC