Author Topic: Hawken Kit  (Read 3608 times)

Offline Hood

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Hawken Kit
« on: November 20, 2022, 02:14:06 AM »
After submitting my other post on the Fusil, I may as well ask the same question regarding a Hawken.

In your opinion/experience - who makes the best Hawken kit? I'm mostly interested in a "in the white" type of kit. I do prefer a full stock as well. I'm not as concerned about it being historically correct either. Just looking for a good shooting gun, that isn't too difficult to put together.

Thanks

Offline Daryl

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Re: Hawken Kit
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2022, 05:10:20 AM »
Easiest to assemble would be one of the Kibler kits. Not Hawken, but PC & wonderful guns.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline borderdogs

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Re: Hawken Kit
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2022, 09:18:48 AM »
Hi Hood,
I haven't built one but Daryl is correct that Kibler kits are I think the closest to in the white guns to build. As for Hawken kits I am not aware of a kit that is available in the white. I like to build plains rifle and Hawken rifles I have built part sets recently from Don Stith and Pecotonica both full and half stock rifles and I have started one from a stock blank and appropriate furniture full stock. I like working with Pecotonica a Hawken full stock kit from them will set back around $1200. I haven't built a Hawken Shop kit and I haven't seen one but from what I have read their kit is first rate but it is expensive around $1600. With their kits you can only have a .54  hal stock and they will require a fair amount of work to get good results. Lately I have been working on a .32 caliber full stock plains rifle in percussion.

Rob


Offline Grischi

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Re: Hawken Kit
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2022, 10:57:49 AM »
I want to point you into the direction of the Lyman Great Plains kits from Dixie Gun Works. Doesn't matter if made by Investarm or Pedersoli, they are a kind of half in the white. Everthing is inletted and drilled already. The stock wood is a bit oversized and needs shaping though but not as much as full custom kit.

Christian

« Last Edit: November 20, 2022, 03:51:09 PM by Grischi »

Offline Hood

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Re: Hawken Kit
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2022, 04:43:43 PM »
Thanks for the info.

It doesn't half to be "in the white", but I would prefer something not too difficult. I would like to try a Kibler at some point, but I would like to get a Hawken first.

Thanks again!

Offline FALout

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Re: Hawken Kit
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2022, 05:49:55 PM »
Most (which isn’t much to choose from) Hawkens kits will be some challenge for someone who doesn’t know how to build.  It can be done, but will not be as easy as a Kibler kit.  I’m not sure if you can get a “in the white” assembled rifle without some wait time.  Hawken parts are not as available as they were 20 years ago.
Bob

Offline borderdogs

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Re: Hawken Kit
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2022, 07:10:28 PM »
It took me building a few to get good at the hard parts but they are not easy. In particular he breech/tang fit and stock shaping a full stock is easier than a half stock. If you call Pecontonica you can have just about anything done, in-letting, dowetails done, thimbles, etc. The last time I ordered one it took around 6 months to get it. In better times they were around 4 weeks.
Rob

Offline jgraham1

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Re: Hawken Kit
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2022, 08:28:26 PM »
Unfortunately, Don Stith passed away last August.  No more of his kits are available.  He had a wonderful fullstock kit that I bought and decided to have John Bergmann built for me using a Roller lock and triggers.  Last kit that Don sold, and I went to his house to pick it up.  Good luck on your search, as it appears many of the kits are no longer available.

Jerry

Offline borderdogs

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Re: Hawken Kit
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2022, 09:47:57 PM »
Yup, too bad about Don I have had two kits from him. Bob Browner I heard bought his inventory and site not sure how that will work out. Both of the kits I got from Don were full stock.

Offline T.C.Albert

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Re: Hawken Kit
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2022, 10:00:48 AM »
I just recently assembled all of the parts I needed to try and finish a Hawken half stock someone started to build over a decade ago.

I had to get these sundry missing parts from a private seller here and at least three or four different vendors as no single one of them had every thing I needed. This was just basic stuff including an iron nose cap, half stock barrel tenons, an iron pine apple style patch box, sights and ram rod thimbles. The prices quickly added up and of course shipping just added to that. I don't think I'd want to try that again as it sure seemed like a mad scramble to get what few parts were left out there.

Maybe Pecatonica could set you up with everything needed right off the bat, lock stock and barrel? Though your size options may be limited and wait times might be long as mentioned above. I would definitely start there. My hang up was only certain size castings of stuff like nose caps seemed to be currently available even from the folks there. Of course I needed the sizes or style most of them didn't have. When I had everything rounded up I had checked about every vendor I could think of only to find most of them no longer had what I needed in stock and didn't know when they'd get more. As I recall I placed actual orders to Upper Missouri River Trading co, Track of the Wolf, Jedidiah Starr, and a private party to get what little bit I needed. I may have forgotten one or two more? I could have made do and cobbled my own stuff and just poured the nose cap, but I had it in my head that i needed "proper" Hawken parts like all the famous old Hawken rifles had. What an adventure.
Tim A.
PS. if you don't already have it I'd also consider getting a copy of Bob Woodfills' book on Hawken Rifles too. Its available through the NMLRA. 
« Last Edit: November 21, 2022, 10:51:48 AM by T.C.Albert »
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Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Hawken Kit
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2022, 04:22:35 PM »
Hawken rifles,hand made and none were alike but most were similar.I am no authority on them and claim to have seen but ONE that I would call a fine job.It was an original J&S I saw over 50 years ago at the Hawken Shop in St.Louis,1972.Some have said they were an American version of the English sporting rifle but other than the half stock and big bore there is/was at least to me no comparison.I have been fortunate to have known Tom Dawson and examined more than one original.Lock making has been/was a specialty for me and only the J&S mentioned  here had a lock that was at least an attempt to use a better lock.My last "quality"lock for a Hawken was on a J&S cast plate but with a copy of a 3 screw English Stanton lock.Late last year I made a representation of the lock on the Peterson Hawken and it was a VERY basic mechanism.
  The offering from the current Hawken Shop looks like a good one and isn't cheap but there is no reason for it to be.Limited interest and sales for sure and specialized parts don't add up to cheap.If anyone needs a winter job,try scratch building one of these rifles. In 1968 I did and never thought of doing it again.I think the rifle I looked at was 54 caliber.

Bob Roller
« Last Edit: November 22, 2022, 12:54:19 AM by Bob Roller »

Offline borderdogs

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Re: Hawken Kit
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2022, 01:30:00 AM »
What I have done is collect parts to I have enough for a build. I have two rifles I am building right now one is a kit the other is a collection of parts and a stock from Tiger Hunt. That one is a full stock plains rifle in .32 something I had numerous conversations with Don Stith about a few years ago. He told me I could put one together that would be similar to those the Hawken brothers and others had available for local trade. This one has a L & R lock and a Hoyt barrel. I have three other parts sets one from Don and two from Pecotonica and another assembly of parts for a half stock short barrel .58 using a stock blank. So I have enough to last me for a while.

What others have said it true there are a lot of parts that are hard to find or not available so if you are looking for a parts set Pecotonica can get you something but you would have to call to find out lead times. From what I have found straight octagon 1" barrel, .50, 54. 58 calibers full or half stock. Both full and half stock kits will be over 1K. I got a lot of help from the members on this forum all through the builds I have done.
Rob

Offline RAT

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Re: Hawken Kit
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2022, 02:20:27 AM »
I hope Jim Kibler is watching this thread. Awhile back there was a thread about what we would like to see him produce in the future. He dropped the hint about a possible Hawken. Most who responded were firmly against it.
Bob

Offline HighUintas

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Re: Hawken Kit
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2022, 05:48:21 AM »
Not to bring up the Kibler Hawken kit discussion again, but if he did pursue it, I think he would do a marvelous job of it. His  woodsrunner addition to his offerings, in my opinion, shows he wants to offer something that is unique. If he were to dive into the Hawken side, I think he would offer a very interesting Hawken kit rather than the typical late S Hawken that everyone knows. Maybe something like that ETC Hawken if he could figure out the machining of that breech bolster?

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Hawken Kit
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2022, 04:08:28 PM »
A half stock English flint lock sporting rifle with his Ketland lock would make more sense than a Hawken.
He offers no caplocks now and with caps becoming scarce and over priced it would be a welcome addition.
to his already good line of established quality repro rifles.
Bob Roller

Offline HighUintas

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Re: Hawken Kit
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2022, 06:11:13 PM »
I agree, Bob. An English sporting rifle from Kibler would be great as well and probably make more sense considering your comments on the lock and caps.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Hawken Kit
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2022, 08:19:31 PM »
A rifle like this, might sell.

Dphar's 16 bore.




The top rifle is a 6 bore.




Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Hawken Kit
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2022, 08:32:18 PM »
DPhar's gun would be the one.Simplicity,good looking and with or without the "patch"box .

Bob Roller

Offline Gaeckle

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Re: Hawken Kit
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2022, 09:13:18 PM »
The Hawkin Shop may be a good choice.

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Hawken Kit
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2022, 03:18:38 AM »
i gave the Hawken Shop assembled in the white a good look and could find nothing wrong with it. It is a good representation of an
S,Hawken.The lock and trigger function was fine in both the "set" and unset modes and the lock was fast and strong.This was at the
Friendship Fall Shoot in 2021 at the Hawken shop booth.

Bob Roller

Offline Frank

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Re: Hawken Kit
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2022, 04:04:17 AM »
With the shortage of percussion caps, I want no part of a percussion Hawken.

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Hawken Kit
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2022, 04:24:49 PM »
I wonder about these shortages of caps & primers and are they contrived for an excuse to give gougers an opportunity to do their
pricing tricks.Just what are the production capabilities being used for?
Bob Roller

Offline redheart

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Re: Hawken Kit
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2022, 07:36:22 PM »
You can still make caps with a "Tap O' Cap".

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Hawken Kit
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2022, 08:23:42 PM »
 Hawken rifles are very deceptive in that they are bare butt plain if made correctly, ( I know there are like four fancy versions around) but the majority of them are plain as a stick. That doesn’t mean they are simple. They are not  easy to reproduce obviously, because almost everything advertised as a Hawkens is wrong.
 I would suggest an SMR, or a plain longrifle from some other school. I personally know of three first build Hawkens that are in the garage, and probably will be until the owners pass on, and pass them on. Start with a plain full stock kit, by a reputable builder, them buy your garage Hawken. JMO.

Hungry Horse

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Hawken Kit
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2022, 11:36:36 PM »
You can still make caps with a "Tap O' Cap".

The home made caps use caps from a roll like the ones we had as small boys don't they?
Do they give reliable ignition?I haven't seen any rolls of caps for 50 years or more and are
they still made and available?
Bob Roller