A couple joann's fabric measurements

[HighUintas]

I finally picked up some 12oz denim and natural colored duck cotton canvas.

The 12oz denim measures, for me, 0.024 with my Hornady calipers using the full length of the blade and squeezing between my thumb and pointer finger nearly hard as I can. I've read that this one measures 0.030 for other people. I'm wondering if anyone has bought some recently and is getting close to the same.

The natural color duck cotton measures 0.026 using the same calipers and method.

I just thought I would post this for some current measurements on fabrics I've seen people mention they use. It may not be helpful if my thumb/finger strength is far off other's.

Edited: duck cotton actually measured 0.026 for me. I was remembering incorrectly.

[Daryl]

Tks for the info. We don't have Joanne's Fabrics here, but still good to know.

The 12 ounce denim I can get here measures the same for me, at .025" compressed as hard as I can in my Hornady calipers.  In my "other" calipers, the 12 ounce measured .030", but in my current Hornady calipers, it measures a solid .025". These measurements are what I also get with my mic, run on the ratchet only.

Without springing (permanently) the yoke of my micrometer, just cranking with forefinger and thumb, the barrel of the mic. I was able to compress the 14 ounce denim to .002",(yes 2 thou) repeatedly, so method is very important. That's the same material that measures .030" using the ratchet, same as in my Hornady calipers when compressed between forefinger and thumb.
Different makes of calipers will measure the same material at a different thickness. This is due to the width of the jaws, I assume. Pushing hard on the rotating little barrel of the calipers will get a thinner measure than pinching, but the pinching method is repeatable, over and over. THAT is important, I think & is the method I prefer.
Currently the 10 ounce denim we can get, is .021" and shoots well in every one of my rifles with balls running .010 (.350") to .005" (.495") under bore size. The .69 is used with the same patch, with a .682" ball.
I use the 14 ounce denim with the .677" and the .662" with virtually the same accuracy as the larger ball & thinner patch.

That natural duck at .022" sounds super for most guns, HighUintas.

[HighUintas]

Yes I was hoping to find a suitable 0.022 because it appears joann's is out of sew classics 10oz denim everywhere online. They do have an 11oz but it is a stretch denim with 1% synthetic blended in.

The same duck cotton (how it was labeled in store) in other colors all measured 0.019 with the same method. Those seemed to be a little "smoother" or more refined or something. It's probably something to do with the dyeing process.

I also found a remnant labeled Bentley twill Arctic that was somewhere between 0.022 and 0.025, I just can't remember. It was very supple and very tightly woven, similar to a denim. I bet it would be fantastic, but was $40/yard and I couldn't find the bolt to test a small amount. I think it would be too pricey for me on a regular basis anyway given that I think the cheaper denim and duck will likely work very well.

Edited to say they're out of 10oz online

[Don Steele]

As Daryl points out, when measuring fabric, technique is everything. I record uncompressed and compressed measurements for my records. For this conversation I’ll just post a couple of the “ compressed”numbers that I get on well known products.
WalMart Cotton Duck: .018
JoAnn 10 oz denim: .018
WalMart 10 oz denim: .018
JoAnn 12oz denim: .025
JoAnn BRND Drill 40: .014-.015
These are the numbers I get, yours may vary.

[hortonstn]

Check out Big duck canvas on line they have a very good selection

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I squeeze the Vernier's calipers too, and the reason for this, is this is how the material is going to be in the bore of the rifle, between the ball and the bore.  The measurement you get is what is important to you alone.  Having selected a cloth that seems to suit, shoot it and determine if it is what works in that rifle with that load.  Record the information.  If you find THE PERFECT MATERIAL, go back the the store and purchase the entire bolt.  Otherwise, you'll be conducting these tests every time you run out of cloth.

[P.W.Berkuta]

Each lot of material will be different in thickness than the next lot and if you measure the material before the sizing is washed out then that will also alter your measurements. The measurements you get is only a guide the real proof of accuracy in your gun is in the shooting of it with your pet load

[Daryl]

I find with the 10 ounce denim we get, along with the 12 and 14 ounce, the measurement in the store is .001" to .002" thinner than once it is washed and dried.
I do 2 washings, 1st with soap, second without along with 2 rinse cycles each time. Then, it goes into the dryer on medium heat. This 'system' shrinks the fabric a
bit and closes/tightens up the weave, I assume(due to the shrinkage).

[Hungry Horse]

 I use an old Ames snap mic instead of a vernier. That way it always reads off the same amount of pressure. I have found modern yardage that is all made overseas is horrendously inconsistent, and if you add in the inconsistent pressure you apply trying to MAKE it measure what you want, it rarely works out.
 Old textiles carefully selected ( linen preferably) works best for me. The thrift stores usually have some, and if you take your magnifies with you, and examine it well, you can usually get it for cheap. There’s a lot of patches in a tablecloth.

Hungry Horse

[Daryl]

Interesting hypothesis, Hungry Horse. If the pressure is inconsistent with the finger pinch method, why are the measurements so repeatable?
I guess I don't understand your definitive statement due to the seemingly repeatable nature of the pinch measurement system many of us use.
The ratchet on the mic is also repeatable. Different mics also give different measurements when run identically. Taylor's Sterret Micrometer measures
.001" or might be .002" thicker than mine due to the strength of the ratchet system. They, however are both repeatable, same as the caliper measurements
we make on the same material.
Like Taylor said, when you find a material that works for you, buy a bunch of it.

[MuskratMike]

Here's my two cents worth. If you buy the same material from the same source and it measures the same as last time it shouldn't  matter what type of caliper you use as long as it's the same one you used last time. To my way of thinking as long as it works for you in that rifle is all that is important.

[HighUintas]

I edited my first post. I thought I had measured the natural duck at 0.022, but it was actually 0.026. An expensive linen I found measured 0.022.

[Daryl]

.022" linen that's inexpensive - that would be nice to find.

[HighUintas]

Yes it felt like it would work very well. But was about $45/yard!

[Hungry Horse]

 My experience with fabric stores is that they either get their fabric from third world countries that have very shoddy standards, or that change suppliers for a cheaper price, and get a lesser product in the bargain. And, yes I encountered this at Joanne’s.
 A ninety year old linen tablecloth with a wine stain or a cigarette burn on it is plenty good for me, and cheap too.
 Cotton yardage is so susceptible to rot that I no longer trust it. And the weave on pillow ticking is rarely tight enough anymore.

Hungry Horse

[Daryl]

Yes it felt like it would work very well. But was about $45/yard!

Inexpensive?  $45.00 per yard is not inexpensive to me.  I thought the denim here was outrageous at $33.00 per meter.
I only buy it when it's on for 1/2 price. 
I have never found my denims to rot but I suppose if left over with lube on them, they might.  I did shoot some years ago, that
had gone a year lubed with Neetsfoot Oil. They were slightly sticky, but were wholesome & shot & loaded just fine. This was back
in the 2002 era.

[HighUintas]

Yes it felt like it would work very well. But was about $45/yard!

Inexpensive?  $45.00 per yard is not inexpensive to me.  I thought the denim here was outrageous at $33.00 per meter.
I only buy it when it's on for 1/2 price. 
I have never found my denims to rot but I suppose if left over with lube on them, they might.  I did shoot some years ago, that
had gone a year lubed with Neetsfoot Oil. They were slightly sticky, but were wholesome & shot & loaded just fine. This was back
in the 2002 era.

No, no, no! You must have misread a post of mine or maybe I typod somewhere. It was MUCH to expensive for me, otherwise I'd have bought it. The cost of your denim up there is expensive too. I think mine was $10-12/yd. I have been telling my wife she need not get me anything for Christmas, on account of my medical bills draining our savings :/

[Daryl]

My wife and I don't exchange gifts any more. We tend to buy what we want. She likes ski & hiking stuff - I like the shooting sports & fishing stuff.

[moleeyes36]

Each lot of material will be different in thickness than the next lot and if you measure the material before the sizing is washed out then that will also alter your measurements. The measurements you get is only a guide the real proof of accuracy in your gun is in the shooting of it with your pet load

Yes, I find this to be the case as well.  And as Daryl said, the material is thinner before the sizing is removed by proper washing.  The quality control is not as good as it could be in China where the denim comes from now, so the thickness does indeed vary from one bolt to another. 

Don Richards

[recurve]

just got back from Joeanne fabrics and they no longer sell the 10oz denim I used for patching . they now carry 7oz (11oz with1 %spandex) 12oz and "bull denim" that is said to be aprox 10oz but mikes smaller than the old (after 2 washings and hot/high dryer

[Fyrstyk]

The last time I bought patch material at JoAnnes I got their "pocket Drill) which miked at .016.  It has a very tight weave, all cotton, and somewhat smooth.  I have been hitting the various household tag sales and have picked up som used Linen table cloths really cheap.  I have enough material now to last the rest of my life time of shooting.