Author Topic: Newbie needs help identifying school  (Read 1364 times)

Offline PowderBurns6

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Newbie needs help identifying school
« on: November 28, 2022, 04:55:21 AM »
I have the ugly stepsister here; a back action percussion rifle. It’s a .43 caliber, with the initials JW on the lock. Anything you can tell me about rifle would appreciated. The stock is curly maple, but it almost
looks ebonized. The lock and hammer seem pretty crude to me. I counted around twenty inlays. I was thinking it is probably an Ohio or North Carolinia rifle. The barrel has an inscription that is mostly covered by the stock








Offline Mark Tyler

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Re: Newbie needs help identifying school
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2022, 05:11:23 AM »
The football shaped side plate is found in the Upper Susquehanna region Pennsylvania rifles. See Joseph Long rifles. As far as possible maker, check out John Watt in Juniata County PA.

Offline PowderBurns6

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Re: Newbie needs help identifying school
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2022, 05:25:37 AM »
I thought about him, ran across his name in Chandler’s book. Kentucky Rifle Patch boxes. Did he forge his own barrels? And the varnish, any idea about the process? I really do appreciate your input, I’m attaching an additional photo. The initials are punched instead of cut, just like the example in the book.

« Last Edit: November 28, 2022, 05:33:25 AM by PowderBurns6 »

Offline Mark Tyler

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Re: Newbie needs help identifying school
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2022, 05:39:57 AM »
I would guess he purchased the barrel and the inscription on the side flat is the barrel maker. The finish appears to be the black piano/violin varnish used in neighboring Huntingdon County PA rifles.

Offline PowderBurns6

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Re: Newbie needs help identifying school
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2022, 05:45:12 AM »
Thanks again, you have been immensely helpful.

Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: Newbie needs help identifying school
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2022, 06:18:40 PM »
Can you post a straight on picture of the hammer, patent breech and nipple.  I have another idea of who made this to share after a closer look.
What area was this rifle found?
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline Loudy

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Re: Newbie needs help identifying school
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2022, 09:24:27 PM »
I suspect the initials on the lock where those of a previous owner of the gun, and not those of the maker of the gun.  From the decorations on the patchbox and cheekpiece inlay it's clear that the gunsmith knew how to use an engraving chisel.  The stock profile (forward nose of the comb shallow & tight to the wrist area) looks Huntingdon County, PA to my eyes.  It's likely that Shreckmeister already has a bead on the maker of this gun.  Looking forward to him filling us all in.   
Loudy         

Offline PowderBurns6

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Re: Newbie needs help identifying school
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2022, 05:10:57 PM »
Sorry about delay,  not sure what a patent breech is. Some additional photos.








Offline PowderBurns6

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Re: Newbie needs help identifying school
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2022, 05:14:07 PM »
Here is the writing on the barrel, mostly hidden.


Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: Newbie needs help identifying school
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2022, 06:12:27 PM »
I suspect the rifle is the work of James Willis who operated in Kittanning.  The patent breech is the the flash deflector around the nipple.  This idea he copied from
William Shreckengost whose breeches looked similar but were better executed.  I write more later
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline Mark Tyler

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Re: Newbie needs help identifying school
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2022, 04:57:47 AM »
I suspect the initials on the lock where those of a previous owner of the gun, and not those of the maker of the gun.  From the decorations on the patchbox and cheekpiece inlay it's clear that the gunsmith knew how to use an engraving chisel.  The stock profile (forward nose of the comb shallow & tight to the wrist area) looks Huntingdon County, PA to my eyes.  It's likely that Shreckmeister already has a bead on the maker of this gun.  Looking forward to him filling us all in.   
Loudy       


I suspect the rifle is the work of James Willis who operated in Kittanning.  The patent breech is the the flash deflector around the nipple.  This idea he copied from
William Shreckengost whose breeches looked similar but were better executed.  I write more later

I disagree. John Watt signed his rifles with punch decoration (typically JW). Juniata county borders Huntingdon to the East. His rifles often have a Huntingdon look. See THE KENTUCKY RIFLE AND ME by Edith Cooper plate no. 81 and recent Poulins Auction:

https://poulinantiques.hibid.com/lot/118791321/percussion-kentucky-rifle-attributed-to-john-watt-?q=John+watt&cat=true

He also used a patent breech often. As did many gunsmiths throughout the country in the late 19th century.

Swivel breech rifle from Cooper collection.







Back action, patent breech rifle sold recently at Poulins.







I owned a plain James Willis rifle. It was artificially striped and stamped “J. E. WILLIS”. The rifle also had the caliber (in balls per pound) stamped on the muzzle.

Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: Newbie needs help identifying school
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2022, 04:09:19 PM »
Good information Mark. All the Willis rifles I have seen are marked the way you stated.
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline Loudy

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Re: Newbie needs help identifying school
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2022, 08:55:40 PM »
Mark,
Excellent research!  John Watt is a good attribution for the maker of the rifle in question here.  I think you nailed it.  Well done.   
Loudy     

Offline PowderBurns6

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Re: Newbie needs help identifying school
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2022, 10:23:04 PM »
Thanks guys for all input. I learned far more than I hoped.