Author Topic: Colerain gain twist accuracy results??  (Read 2855 times)

Offline Dave R

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Colerain gain twist accuracy results??
« on: December 05, 2022, 04:35:05 AM »
I would appreciate actual round ball results with a Colerain Classic American 50 caliber 42” B weight swamped barrel with GAIN TWIST and W shaped lands.
Thanks! Dave R

Offline recurve

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Re: Colerain gain twist accuracy results??
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2022, 07:48:49 AM »



ok not colerain but a Bobby Hoyt gain twist 54 36inch

Offline Dave R

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Re: Colerain gain twist accuracy results??
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2022, 09:14:54 PM »
Thanks Recurve! 😉
How happy are you with your target results with the Hoyt barrel? 🤔
Dave R

Offline recurve

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Re: Colerain gain twist accuracy results??
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2022, 01:10:30 AM »
I have 3 Hoyt barrels  2 50 1-56 round ball twist,   & 54 gain twist and just had him make me a 50 in gain twist for a winter build he states it hits harder/faster for the same load  with that said all of the Hoyt barrels shoot Very well




( a
and2 gain twist
the 2 builders you can ask is Brad at Cabin creek and Mr Hoyt  both like gain twist



« Last Edit: December 06, 2022, 01:20:15 AM by recurve »

Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: Colerain gain twist accuracy results??
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2022, 05:28:24 PM »
Very useful post, Recurve.

Offline Jeff Murray

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Re: Colerain gain twist accuracy results??
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2022, 08:45:57 PM »
My 58 caliber Hawken has a Hoyt gain twist barrel ( 1 in 80 at the breech - 1 in 48 at the muzzle) which shoots very accurately with loads ranging from 90 to 130 grains of 2F.  The 130 grain load knocked a buffalo over, hooves up.  Don't know if the faster muzzle twist rate had anything to do with that result but it impressed me.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Colerain gain twist accuracy results??
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2022, 04:58:04 AM »
Frame of mind and condition when hit makes a HUGE difference to the immediate/impact reaction/results.
Many animals, like black bears will drop at the shot, then take off on a run. The larger the bore, the more
impact. I found that out on moose comparing impact results from my .69, compared to my buddy's .75. Mine
stagger, drop their butt on to the ground, then stagger to standing and walk a short distance.  When Keith
smacked one with his .75, they dropped and stay down, no matter from which direction they were hit. Amazing.
Daryl

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Offline Jeff Murray

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Re: Colerain gain twist accuracy results??
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2022, 09:17:47 PM »
I think range has a big impact as well.  I guess if you use a big enough rock you can knock anything over.  Discovered that as a kid with a slingshot.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Colerain gain twist accuracy results??
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2022, 05:10:32 PM »
If the barrel is properly made a gain will shoot was well as anything else. I have a barrel by Jim McLemore that has a gain but he would not tell me how much, it shoots extremely well. And is capable of winning any RB bench match anywhere, it weighs just under 18 pounds so its not an offhand rifle.  Gain twists are being made in the modern world as well and win matches.
Killing power. Some critters will fall over when shot but few do in my experience. Which covers a WIDE range of RB, BPC and modern calibers. Shot placement is the killer. Velocity makes a flatter trajectory. But I have killed critters with a RB at 1000 fps or less so its primary function is flatter trajectories and often  better accuracy.
And species can be harder to “stop” than others. When using (IIRC) a 20 bore Manton rifle Sir William Drummond Stewart stated that it was easier the knock down and elk with it that a Mule Deer. He also stated that it killed more game with less powder and lead than any rifle at the Rendezvous. I DO know that a deer that is nervous/alarmed is harder to stop than one that is relaxed. The only SURE way to drop something in its tracks is to use a HV high expansion rate bullet (massive meat loss) or heavily shock or hit the brain or spinal cord. With tha spread of CWD this is not a good option for me anymore. But then years ago one of the ML gun writers shot a bull Bison side to side through the BRAIN and it GOT BACK UP.  This was in the 1970s sometime. Not going to dig for the article. Might have been Sam Fadala. But its been sometime so….

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Offline Jeff Murray

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Re: Colerain gain twist accuracy results??
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2022, 05:25:22 AM »
My experience is similar.  Although the ones that went down and stayed down were shot at close range - 10 - 20 yards.  Those shot at longer ranges,  50 to 60+ yards, usually just humped, went 30 to 50 yards and tipped over.  Wild boar tend to be tough but one shot at about 15 feet just shuddered and collapsed.   Agree that shot placement is probably the most critical element.  Hard to be over-gunned for large game.

Offline hanshi

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Re: Colerain gain twist accuracy results??
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2022, 09:27:44 PM »
I have a .45 gain twist underhammer that easily outshoots me.  Can't say if the gain twist is responsible for the rifles stunning accuracy but none of my other flintlocks have ever bettered it.
Even with the flyer counted the group is under 1".
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Online smylee grouch

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Re: Colerain gain twist accuracy results??
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2022, 10:03:32 PM »
Nice shooting Hanshi. Do you know the rate of twist/ breech and muzzle?

Offline Dave R

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Re: Colerain gain twist accuracy results??
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2022, 01:53:39 AM »
Thanks everyone on reply’s about gain twist!! Seems like no one on this blog has experience with COLERAIN gain twist barrels!?

Offline recurve

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Re: Colerain gain twist accuracy results??
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2022, 08:23:37 AM »
call Brad at cabin creek he has built several rifles with gain twist colerain barrels

Offline Dave R

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Re: Colerain gain twist accuracy results??
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2022, 10:03:44 PM »
Thanks Recurve! :)

Offline recurve

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Re: Colerain gain twist accuracy results??
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2023, 04:45:11 AM »
just finished a rifle with a gain twist 38-inch B weight barrel .50 from Mr Hoyt and at 25 yrds slightly high dead on at 50yrds and at 100yrds <with 70 grains 3f Swiss . my other.50s from Mr. Hoyt 1-56 twist 42-inch barrel, are right on at 50 but 2-inch low at 100 with the same load . Mr Hoyt said the gain twist hits harder and faster my results back that up.


Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Colerain gain twist accuracy results??
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2023, 12:22:50 AM »
 My opinion is strictly from my observations over the years while deer hunting in California. Now I know most of our deer are a smaller variety than other areas, but they are tough. My observations tend to support the theory that fast twist barrels impart more shock than slow twist barrels.
 The real problem with trying to really pin this down is the fast twist doesn’t produce consistent results at extended range. And the slow twist requires considerably more powder to stabilize the ball. So comparisons are hard.
 Enter the gain twist. This is the best of both worlds for the hunter, hard hitting accuracy with the devastating damage of the fast twist barrel. This is the perfect balance for hunting, because most designated hunting rifles don’t get a lot of barrel wear and thats a good thing because gain twist are a bear to freshen out. Happy hunting.

Hungry Horse

Offline yulzari

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Re: Colerain gain twist accuracy results??
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2023, 07:55:20 PM »
My take on this is that the ball is accelerating up the barrel. Initially it is at a (comparatively) slow speed and can cope with a fast rate of change of the twist without stripping, soon it gets faster and, as it does so, the twist should increase at an increasingly slow rate of change. What we want is a constant rate rotation per unit of time which puts the combination under a constant stress in the grip of the rifling as it will have to meet the stress of the final twist anyway.

Thus one might postulate that a falling twist would be the best to give a constant stress with changing velocity and twist but life is too short to stuff mushrooms and a constant twist will give the bullet the same rotation and velocity as it emerges from the muzzle as gaining or falling twist rifling.

I suspect that the bullet only knows at what speed it emerges and how fast it is spinning. How it got there is immaterial to it but you are very happy with it and so that is the main thing and I wish you well with the fine beastie.

The ultimate gaining twist must be the Paradox bore and its copies. The innocent ball happily rushes up the smoothbore with no spin at all until it gets to within single figure centimetres of the muzzle and suddenly, at high speed, it is grasped by burly unkind ridges that rudely spin it up to speed all but instantly. As Emile Levasseur allegedly said of his unsophisticated crash gearbox in his pre WW1 racing car “c’est brut mais ca marche” It is crude but it works.

Good luck and good fun.

« Last Edit: June 12, 2023, 08:04:07 PM by yulzari »
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