Hawken Hammer

[Mule Brain]

Been working on this a bit, and was going rather smooth till this. I recon it's gonna need to be heated up in the forge and bent some

 

[flinchrocket]

Perhaps a hammer with a longer throw might be better than trying to stretch that one out.

[taterbug]

The real help will be along shortly, but I recognize which parts you're using... sorta wish I didn't.

Mine aren't exactly to the degree of yours (older maybe?), so I'm interested in the answers too. 

[flinchrocket]

You don’t have to take my advice, just a suggestion. It’s still a free country.

[Mule Brain]

I always have an ear to listen, so any and all advice is welcome.

This is the Kit Carson pre carve, and all the parts from Track. With everything pre inlet, you aint got no wiggle room 

[Daryl]

Measure the throw & buy accordingly. There should be one that will fit, at Track.

[smylee grouch]

 Can you set the barrel back in to the tang any? Looks like you have a small gap betwix the tang and breech so moving barrel back MIGHT be enough. Just an option to look at. 

[Bob Roller]

Can you set the barrel back in to the tang any? Looks like you have a small gap betwix the tang and breech so moving barrel back MIGHT be enough. Just an option to look at. 

Grouch has about the only that might work.MAYbe the hammer can be forged and stretched. It looks like the Davis hammer to me.
Bob Roller

[Scota4570]

It looks like the lock is inlet to low and to far back.  Is the plate in front of the snail centered on the side flat?  I would bet the barrel can not be moved back, the tang is hour glass shaped, it will make an ugly gap.  I ran into similar issues when I made a Hawken.  After the second bad precarve stock I gave up and successfully built from a plank. 

[Gunnermike]

Mulebrain you could try the approach I took. 
I bought a used Hawken several years ago.  It looked like this when I got it:

It had a real bad gap between the bolster & tang and in the lockplate area.  I fixed the tang by heating & welding and then made another hammer from scratch. 
It looks like this now:

I still have to do some reshaping the wood lockplate area at the top rear yet.

I also made another lockplate to imitate the Jim Bridger Hawken by lengthening it and reshaping the tail.  It took a while to do but it can be done.
After a little backyard cooking, I mean hardening, in charcoal it looks like this now:


later, Mike

[Herb]

You can lift the nose of the hammer.  Hold it tight in a vise and heat the neck red-white, very hot.  Mapp-Pro gas should be hot enough, I doubt propane would do it.   Lift the nose with a 9/16 box end wrench.  I have a photo, if I can find it.

[rich pierce]

Lots of good options. I have a cross peen hammer I’d use to stretch it and bet I could get 3/16” pretty quick, hammering just on the inside. But getting a longer throw hammer sounds easiest to me.

[Mule Brain]

Like others have also stated, you really cannot move the barrel and tang anymore to the rear. I think I will try and heat it, and just bend it up some.

Thanks for all the input fellers   

I guess I could just fire up my forge and use it to heat it up

[albert]

I would first re-fit the barrel to the tang to eliminate the big gap , then do what is necessary to line up.

[Dphariss]

Honestly? If the lock was not cut for the the breech you put the plate in the wrong place. With an uncut lock you use the hammer to determine where the lock is placed. Its like aligning the pan with the vent on a flintlock.
Trace the lock plate on the stock at the approximate location, looks right, fits the wrist etc, tracing the tumbler hole. Then try the hammer on the drawing shifting it around till  it will strike the nipple. Note it will likely need some adjustment to properly strike the nipple, I use an acetylene or Mapp gas torch. Usually nees to be bent toward the bore.
If the lock plate is precut in the wrong place then you need a different hammer or a welder.

[Dphariss]

Honestly? If the lock was not cut for the the breech you put the plate in the wrong place. With an uncut lock you use the hammer to determine where the lock is placed. Its like aligning the pan with the vent on a flintlock.
Trace the lock plate on the stock at the approximate location, looks right, fits the wrist etc, tracing the tumbler hole. Then try the hammer on the drawing shifting it around till  it will strike the nipple. Note it will likely need some adjustment to properly strike the nipple, I use an acetylene or Mapp gas torch. Usually nees to be bent toward the bore.
If the lock plate is precut in the wrong place then you need a different hammer or a welder.

OK read more of the posts.
Improperly cut precarves are a PITA but that gap between the standing breech and the breech proper has to be fixed or you will get a lot of fouling  in the barrel channel. Then do the hammer. The last TOW rifle precarve I did, long ago, I ended up making a lock plate. After sending several stocks back. 

[smylee grouch]

My response in my first post was to move the barrel back against the tang if there is a gap between them not move the tang. If there is a gap between them it probably should be closed up first before stretching the hammer. 

[Longknife]

Mule, after you get that hammer sorted out do some shaping on that front lock plate molding. Take a look at gunnermikes,,,,LK

[Dphariss]

I was looking for these photos for the previous post and while its not really relevant to a pre-inlet this is the idea.
My friend sent me a bunch of parts the lockplate and the hammer was not compatible with a 1 1/4” barrel so I made a lockplate and put on a bigger hammer.

[P.W.Berkuta]

Go buy a hammer with a longer throw and be done with it.

[Daryl]

There is always THAT solution, Paul.

[P.W.Berkuta]

There is always THAT solution, Paul.

Yup -- I got better things to do than try to bend a hammer that much and maybe break it then I will have to buy a new one so for me I will just buy it now and be done with it

[Dave B]

Like what Rich said. Its easy to use a 5 lb cross pean hammer and stretch the neck working the back side of the neck. It is easy to take it too far. I had exactly this same issue with a Petonica Hawken kit i helped a guy with. I stretched the hammer neck but they also didnt inlet the barrel deep enough so I inlet the barrel and tang deeper to get the fit right. I didnt catch the issue till well under way so sending back the stock was not an option. The wood was a knock out to boot.

[Bob Roller]

IF there is any compatability at all in the various parts,the very first thing I would do is to try to make sure the breech plug and tang were closely fit and this requires some fine filing. The only "Hawken" I ever made had a one piece breech and tang and was a tricky inlet into the wood and then the lock plate was aligned by securing the hammer and a small  fixture was made that had a nut and bolt effect as a fastener.Those gaps in the 2 piece breech kill the job until they are gone and that can be done before the barrel is inlet.The level of quality control at the foundry that cast the 2 piece breech will also be a factor in the finished fit and appearance of the rifle.The Hawken Shop as it was in 1972 had all breeches X rayed and ANY internal defects seen got the breech sent back for replacement and that said a lot for quality control and maybe a blown up gun.
   The second 2 piece breech I used was on an Alex Henry representation and the breech needed NO additional filing. It was from Don Brown,now deceased and I stlll have one I used when making sure the hammer and nipple were easily aligned  and the half and full cock positions were right where they should be.

Bob Roller

[Dave B]

The Logcabin shop has percusion hammers that have a 2 " throw which may get you going.