Author Topic: Antique target shooting?  (Read 2548 times)

Offline Shreckmeister

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Antique target shooting?
« on: March 15, 2022, 02:23:50 PM »
Is this some sort of muzzle rest and starter?



Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline smokinbuck

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Re: Antique target shooting?
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2022, 03:24:06 PM »
yes. The horse shoe shaped item is a "cant" block. It fastens to the barrel in an effort to keep the rifle horizntal. athe plunger is a ball/bullet starter.
Mark

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Antique target shooting?
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2022, 04:32:20 PM »
This is a mostly a ďguide starter for a picket bullet. The cant block is as described above. The starter is a necessary tool when shooting the cloth patched picket bullet. The rifle was either turned round at the muzzle or a false muzzle was used.
Since its for a bench rifle itís possible the starter was used for round ball rille as well. Or for a slug gun with a false muzzle. These were used into the cartridge era when the bullets were loaded from the muzzle or without a false muzzle.
Regardless of projectile the rifle was owned by a serious rifleman.
Since the cant block is for a rifle with an under rib itís possible it was for a dual purpose hunting/target rifle.
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline Daryl

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Re: Antique target shooting?
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2022, 08:05:56 PM »
My thoughts too, Dan. There is at least one picket bullet in the box of balls. The slightly longish silver item also looks like a conical.
Good pickup on the under rib cut-out cant-block.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2022, 10:30:41 PM by Daryl »
Daryl

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Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Antique target shooting?
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2022, 06:08:41 PM »
There are many current " bench " rest shooters that still use a cant block.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Antique target shooting?
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2022, 08:31:43 PM »
A "cant block" would be importance for longer range shooting due to trajectory necessitating high sights.
Any canting of the gun will drastically increase group size.
Daryl

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Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Antique target shooting?
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2022, 09:53:34 PM »
Yes, a cant will in effect lower your front sight and move it left or right depending on which direction you cant. This will throw your shots out of the     sight in POA

Offline DavidC

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Re: Antique target shooting?
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2022, 11:18:41 PM »
So a forced reference to keep the top flat of the barrel parallel to the surface you're resting on?

Not a bad idea at all. Do many people use any sore of sight level here? At what point would you start seeing some sort of bubble level as an indicator of canting?

Offline smokinbuck

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Re: Antique target shooting?
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2022, 04:02:03 PM »
David,
There are many front sights available with spirit levels attached and there are many shooters out there that attach spirit levels to their front sight. These levels do work but are primarily used on the "bench" rifles. They could, but do not, replace a cant block attached to the rifle barrel. Typically the benches being shot off of are the point that is leveled then the cant block or spirit level come into play when the rifle is placed on the bench.
Mark

Offline DavidC

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Re: Antique target shooting?
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2022, 07:34:25 PM »
Mark,

I see a cant block would be useless on a non level surface which is why a level within your sight is better for a gun that might not be purely for the bench. That small level still leaves a margin of error that could be huge at 300+ yards.

But when do sight levels start appearing?

Offline Daryl

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Re: Antique target shooting?
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2022, 08:41:01 PM »
No evidence, but I'm going to guess 1880's/1890's for spirit levels.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Antique target shooting?
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2022, 10:15:29 PM »
Some of us have been 1/2 a bubble from level when we began shooting black powder guns of any kind :D :D :D :D.
One of our friends said "The cheese fell off my cracker"and maybe it's true.
Bob Roller

Offline smokinbuck

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Re: Antique target shooting?
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2022, 02:26:20 AM »
David,
Your thinking is right on. But, don't forget that can't blocks or muzzle rests are. Flat and normally leveled during set up.
Mark

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Antique target shooting?
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2022, 07:25:11 AM »
Mark,

I see a cant block would be useless on a non level surface which is why a level within your sight is better for a gun that might not be purely for the bench. That small level still leaves a margin of error that could be huge at 300+ yards.

But when do sight levels start appearing?
They were not used in the field. These were serious riflemen shooting matches.
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Antique target shooting?
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2022, 07:37:19 AM »
No evidence, but I'm going to guess 1880's/1890's for spirit levels.
I suspect that the levels came about with the long range tang sights on slug guns. They were shooting these to very long range before the American Civil War.
And surely on LR brass suppository guns at least by 1874 though Sharps hade a windgage front by at least late 1873. In 1874 the spirit level was $5 extra. This from Sellerís book.
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: Antique target shooting?
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2022, 09:30:52 PM »
The starter is for a 45 caliber picket. Itís designed to fit over a 1 1/16 inch muzzle. The cant block
Is design for a 1 3/16 inch octagon barrel.  Not sure if these were for the same rifle. 



« Last Edit: March 21, 2022, 06:52:48 PM by Shreckmeister »
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline lexington1

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Re: Antique target shooting?
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2022, 01:39:13 AM »
That stuff is pretty neat Rob. Is this something that you acquired? I am setting up a Billinghurst target rifle and getting familiar with all those pieces. Mine has been drilled and tapped for an anti-cant block on the bottom of the barrel, but the block is gone. I am going to make one. It still has the false muzzle with the starter. The barrel was rough, so I sent it back to Hoyt for a reline. I also picked up a Nelson rifle that has a false muzzle and the original picket mold with it. It was missing the starter, but I actually found one that fits it perfectly at the antique show in Vegas. I didn't win any money there, but I felt like I got very lucky finding the starter.

Offline Uncle Miltie

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Re: Antique target shooting?
« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2022, 09:17:55 PM »
Muzzle rest and guide starter you have there.  Are you going to shoot that rifle?

Offline Daryl

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Re: Antique target shooting?
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2022, 10:41:40 PM »
The starter is for a 45 caliber picket. Itís designed to fit over a 1 1/16 inch muzzle. The cant block
Is design for a 1 3/16 inch octagon barrel.  Not sure if these were for the same rifle


It is also quite possible they were for the same rifle, as the muzzles were turned from octagonal for the guide bullet starter. Remington was selling
barrels to the gun making trade already turned for these "starters", octagonal barrels with a round turned muzzle.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V