Author Topic: Not a Bedford flintlock smoothbore  (Read 1423 times)

Offline jruff5585

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Not a Bedford flintlock smoothbore
« on: December 05, 2022, 03:34:36 AM »
50 cal. 40 3/4" barrel, 12 3/4 LOP, GOLCHER lock {can only see lcher} double engraved around edges. No signature and I think it may have been refinished.









« Last Edit: December 05, 2022, 08:59:16 AM by jruff5585 »

Offline jdm

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Re: Bedford flintlock smoothbore
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2022, 04:09:04 AM »
This does not look like a Bedford gun to me. I would  look at the Reading area to  start my research. Nice patch box also nice carving on the cheek piece side. The lock looks like a replacement to me. If you look at the dark wood behind the lock there is a line where some wood may have been replaced.  It's a nice rifle with some good lines.  Thanks for sharing.   Jim
JIM

Offline okawbow

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Re: Bedford flintlock smoothbore
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2022, 05:22:30 AM »
Nice rifle. No Bedford County, Pa. Characteristics that I see.
As in life; itís the journey, not the destination. How you get there matters most.

Offline Tanselman

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Re: Bedford flintlock smoothbore
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2022, 05:52:14 AM »
You have an interesting PA rifle. The patchbox reminds me of an early J. P. Beck of Lebanon Co., PA... despite the curvature in the comb. Can we see a better picture of the pachbox and its engraved patterns, and the tang and any carving around it? Thanks,

Shelby Gallien

Offline jruff5585

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Re: Bedford flintlock smoothbore
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2022, 08:57:09 AM »
 I'm always amazed how you guys can tell what area a gun was made. I had the lock off, it's not a replacement and it's a Golcher lock I miss spelled it. I'll get some more pics up tomorrow. Thanks for the replies

Offline Buck

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Re: Not a Bedford flintlock smoothbore
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2022, 03:07:49 PM »
I'd guess a late Berks rifle, after 1815. Maybe an 1820's restock of old furniture, I'd agree with Shelby that the box is reminiscent of a JP Beck box in shape. Nice rifle.

Buck

Offline mr. no gold

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Re: Not a Bedford flintlock smoothbore
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2022, 12:57:58 AM »
Nice rifle; thank you for posting the good photos. The box does have a 'Beckish' appearance to it, but interestingly, so does the carving design behind the cheek rest. There is an early wood box Beck with raised carving and design is quite similar to what is on this gun. Is this one a Beck? No, but the maker may have been impressed with Becks' work enough to incorporate elements of that style into his own palette. Hard to second guess what went on two hundred years ago. One would have had to be there to know.
Dick

Offline jruff5585

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Re: Not a Bedford flintlock smoothbore
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2022, 06:10:30 AM »
Sorry I couldn't get more pics today, but I did my due diligence. I ordered a few books  Arms Makers of Pennsylvania, James Whisker Pennsylvania Gunmakers Limited Edition, Thoughts On The KENTUCKY RIFLE In It's GOLDEN AGE, Arms Makers of Colonial America, THE BEDFORD COUNTY PENNSYLVANIA RIFLE BOOK , Gunsmiths of Bedford County and Gunsmiths of Summerset County.
I found a new copy of  Moravian Gun Making of the American Revolution but I'm still choking, maybe someday. My wife bought me Heer Der Neue Stockel a few years ago and refuses to tell me what she paid for them. So Thanks you all for all you input. I'll try my best to inform myself instead just posting up rifles.

Offline LynnC

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Re: Not a Bedford flintlock smoothbore
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2022, 07:05:32 PM »
Donít stop posting rifles. I love to see a new to us guns here in the antique forum. Post away 😉
The price of eggs got so darn high, I bought chickens......

Offline John Cotterall

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Re: Not a Bedford flintlock smoothbore
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2023, 06:01:55 AM »
As someone else said it could be from the Reading Berks County area. That Roman nose profile and the squared rear end of the side plate are indicative of that ďschool ď I read somewhere that Goelcher locks were made in Philadelphia.

Offline Jdbeck

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Re: Not a Bedford flintlock smoothbore
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2023, 02:47:15 AM »
Bet itís a N. Beyer if itís not a parts gun.

Online Joe Stein

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Re: Not a Bedford flintlock smoothbore
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2023, 07:08:56 AM »
Bet itís a N. Beyer if itís not a parts gun.

I wasn't going to jump in on this, but JD could be right. I have pictures of two Beyer guns, one a rifle and one a smooth bore that came from the same family. They were for sale on a table at a large antique gun show. They both have stock profiles very similar, almost identical to the posted gun, though with less drop. The patch boxes have sideplates like the one above, and similar incised carving behind the cheek rest, though there is some raised portion to the carving, as Beyer was known to do. Trigger guard on one is very close, the other, not so much. The smoothbore is percussion with octagonal to round barrel. The rifle is flintlock with full octagonal barrel. Neither has a side plate like the one above.
Unfortunately, when I got the chance to photograph the guns I was strictly forbidden to post them anywhere, with this forum specifically stated.
The person who owned them at the time sometimes posts here, and is well-known author of books about long rifles. I don't know who owns them now, but I was told by the person who had them for sale that they had been sold.