Author Topic: ageing new brass  (Read 1755 times)

Offline monro1066

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ageing new brass
« on: February 02, 2023, 07:05:07 PM »
I want to age all brass work at one time ,is there a better or best method?
Thanks in advance ,Don

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: ageing new brass
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2023, 08:10:42 PM »
This picture of a rifle before it was complete but I used cold blue and lightly buffed it back with a green scotch pad.


Offline rich pierce

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Re: ageing new brass
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2023, 08:24:17 PM »
Most old brass has a dull mustard appearance. If you want to age aggressively apply wet patches from after shooting black powder. Some cold blues look good; others look weird applied to brass. I think Jim Kibler sells a solution.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Cory Joe Stewart

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Re: ageing new brass
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2023, 09:41:11 PM »
I have gotten good success from spitting in some blackpowder and mixing it, the rubbing it on the brass.  Leave overnight and wash it and buff off as much as you like.

Cory Joe

Offline Frank

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Re: ageing new brass
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2023, 10:02:18 PM »
Dirty wet cleaning patches.

Offline Daryl

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Re: ageing new brass
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2023, 10:13:29 PM »
Mine just did it on it's own.





Daryl

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Offline Daryl

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Re: ageing new brass
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2023, 02:46:55 AM »
I'd say just use the gun. The brass will tarnish quickly, on it's own.
Same rifle when newish.


Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Dphariss

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Re: ageing new brass
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2023, 04:18:59 AM »
I don’t age anything, its not historically correct to do so. I mean a new rifle was a new rifle then or now. Looking at something 200+ years after the fact is not really educational as to int appearance when new nor is is realistic to age things. Making a rifle to use in reenactments, etc, that looks 150 years old is silly. This is how it looked 150 years later and likely, in the case of a FL Kentucky it would be converted to percussion and then disabled so the kids could play with it for who knows how long. Yeah it happened. I had a man tell me that as a kid he was given a shotgun to hunt with and wore away part of the buttstock dragging it by the barrels since it was too heavy to carry. I know people in my age range that played Cowboys and Indians with a Johnson (IIRC is been about 40 years) percussion military pistol, a TIFFANY Colt and a Ball lever action rifle. Wore all the gold wash off the outside of the cyl of the Tiffany. This would have been in the 1950s or late 40s. The Johnson still looked pretty much new. Nipple was still blue, I doubt it had ever been fired. Bore and breech face shiny. They told me that their Grandfather had a collection and BURIED a trunk full of guns in NYC when the Sullivan act was enacted. So guns that were thought of little value got used by kids. And many show this. The man that told me of  dragging the shotgun had a collection of Kentuckies when he left for Canada to join WW-II. He said when he got back there was only a junker and the stock of one of his “good guns” left. Scrap drives.
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline AZshot

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Re: ageing new brass
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2023, 04:52:13 AM »
I seem to recall you can fume brass over ammonia and it will turn brown.  Do some research.

I have a brass framed Mowrey I bought about 30 years ago, shot it occasionally over the years.  It is still just as shiny as when I bought it.  So I'd say not all brass will tarnish quickly.  It depends on it's makeup, if it's covered with oil or wax, and the environment.  I know brass goes through several stages of patina over the years.  The oldest will be black, you can't even tell it's brass underneath.  That's usually from 75 or 100 years of not being touched or polished, in my experience with other brass antiques.

Offline monro1066

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Re: ageing new brass
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2023, 03:04:58 PM »
.Thankyou all for yr knowledge and input

Offline Rick Rhodes

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Re: ageing new brass
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2023, 05:07:12 PM »
I recently read about using fresh coffee grounds, haven't  tried  it yet but intend to

Offline James Wilson Everett

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Re: ageing new brass
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2023, 05:44:30 PM »
Guys,

I second Rich's idea to use a fresh spit patch when you go shooting, this really will darken shiny brass quickly.  Note that the spit patch should be used right away, if you wait until you get home, it doesn't work so well.

Jim

Offline Old Time Hunter

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Re: ageing new brass
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2023, 06:48:44 PM »
I don’t age anything, its not historically correct to do so. I mean a new rifle was a new rifle then or now. Looking at something 200+ years after the fact is not really educational as to int appearance when new nor is is realistic to age things. Making a rifle to use in reenactments, etc, that looks 150 years old is silly. This is how it looked 150 years later and likely, in the case of a FL Kentucky it would be converted to percussion and then disabled so the kids could play with it for who knows how long. Yeah it happened. I had a man tell me that as a kid he was given a shotgun to hunt with and wore away part of the buttstock dragging it by the barrels since it was too heavy to carry. I know people in my age range that played Cowboys and Indians with a Johnson (IIRC is been about 40 years) percussion military pistol, a TIFFANY Colt and a Ball lever action rifle. Wore all the gold wash off the outside of the cyl of the Tiffany. This would have been in the 1950s or late 40s. The Johnson still looked pretty much new. Nipple was still blue, I doubt it had ever been fired. Bore and breech face shiny. They told me that their Grandfather had a collection and BURIED a trunk full of guns in NYC when the Sullivan act was enacted. So guns that were thought of little value got used by kids. And many show this. The man that told me of  dragging the shotgun had a collection of Kentuckies when he left for Canada to join WW-II. He said when he got back there was only a junker and the stock of one of his “good guns” left. Scrap drives.
I thought that, the OP requested "information" on aging  brass not, "opinions" on aging brass!

Offline Dphariss

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Re: ageing new brass
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2023, 07:36:56 PM »
I don’t age anything, its not historically correct to do so. I mean a new rifle was a new rifle then or now. Looking at something 200+ years after the fact is not really educational as to int appearance when new nor is is realistic to age things. Making a rifle to use in reenactments, etc, that looks 150 years old is silly. This is how it looked 150 years later and likely, in the case of a FL Kentucky it would be converted to percussion and then disabled so the kids could play with it for who knows how long. Yeah it happened. I had a man tell me that as a kid he was given a shotgun to hunt with and wore away part of the buttstock dragging it by the barrels since it was too heavy to carry. I know people in my age range that played Cowboys and Indians with a Johnson (IIRC is been about 40 years) percussion military pistol, a TIFFANY Colt and a Ball lever action rifle. Wore all the gold wash off the outside of the cyl of the Tiffany. This would have been in the 1950s or late 40s. The Johnson still looked pretty much new. Nipple was still blue, I doubt it had ever been fired. Bore and breech face shiny. They told me that their Grandfather had a collection and BURIED a trunk full of guns in NYC when the Sullivan act was enacted. So guns that were thought of little value got used by kids. And many show this. The man that told me of  dragging the shotgun had a collection of Kentuckies when he left for Canada to join WW-II. He said when he got back there was only a junker and the stock of one of his “good guns” left. Scrap drives.
I thought that, the OP requested "information" on aging  brass not, "opinions" on aging brass!

I don’t agree with aging. Its unnecessary fakery IMO. And some people who are really good at it have been known to be caught in fraudulent dealings. I knew one personally. We don’t know how many times he didn’t get caught. So I distrust ALL such things and I will give my opinion. You no likee then don’t readee. AND I might point out I told the OP how to PROPERLY  age the thing .  I have rifles made in the 1970s that have been used pretty extensively and a friend with the same. Hunted with, killing Deer, Elk and Blackbear, that I know of. Winning matches. Snow, rain, heat and cold. You know what? They still look good, nearly new. Few dents and dings but don’t look like they were dragged up a muddy road behind a ATV.  So I know its FAKERY. So explain to me of what actual value this is? Yeah its his gun, he can do what he wants. But people also need to be given some ADVICE that is actually based on FACT. Not feelings. I had one of my early rifles, dark stained walnut, forged TG, but never aged. It got rusted and someone or other sold it to some unsuspecting buyer as “found in an old cabin is Eastern Kentucky”. I would like to think the seller was not the friend I made it for about 1969. He is beyond asking. I am still not happy about this.  Had my name cut in the barrel.  There are other things I know about aged items other that firearms. A friend who made plain powderhorns the old way found one of his powderhorns for sale as a Rev-War horn. He finally pointed out to the seller that it had his touchmark on it. Faked powderhorns have been done since at least early 1900s and probably all the way back to 1876. Some in museum collections for decades. A friend of mine who has been at this longer than I and very well informed told me a few years ago there was no way he would pay anything much for an “antique” powder horn. Tinware. I know a guy who over 50 years ago put himself through college making and selling fake tinware. He aged it in his back yard. Everytime some reenactor posts of finding a “really neat old corn cooker” or what ever in some antique store I smile and wonder. So yeah I have reasons for everything I post and its based on experience in almost all cases. I might be wrong, either in opinion or fact. But I never intentionally lie or mislead.  But fakery is a blot on everyone that makes ML rifles and the gear that goes with them.
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline MuskratMike

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Re: ageing new brass
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2023, 09:44:36 PM »
Dephariss:
I also agree that anyone "faking" guns is a blight on our sport.
However I'm sure you know I have a small but impressive collection of rifles and smoothbores made by Don Bruton that look and feel like originals. It's just the way I like my guns made. Even the Mathew Gillespie "tribute" rifle that is close to a bench copy has been aged to look just like the original other than the barrel length and caliber. The initials on the barrel say D. B. not M.G. To prove it is not original. I have had numerous people comment to me when seeing one of these guns how lucky I am to have a real vintage piece. I ALWAYS tell them it is of modern construction not an antique. It's just my preference as no one can carry and use a gun enough to aquire the patina those old guys got by being carried everyday.
I guess it's a matter of personal preference. I respect your opinion and value your thoughtful opinions I have read over the years.
Mike
"Muskrat" Mike McGuire
Keep your eyes on the skyline, your flint sharp and powder dry.

Offline oldtravler61

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Re: ageing new brass
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2023, 11:26:48 PM »
  My 2 cents....we have already lost a few new comers to this site. Because they asked a question on how or has anyone tried this or that. They then get bashed by a couple of people on here... So they no longer will ask questions..  Is that what we really want ..?  Maybe some of you do but I don't..! 
   Funny I thought we were here to help each other...? 
 Like Muskrat Mike I like my muzzle loaders to look well used. I call it character. The O.P. was just asking for help nothing more nothing less...
  Oh an by the way that mustard technique works very well.....Just saying...
 
 

Offline AZshot

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Re: ageing new brass
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2023, 01:09:38 AM »
When I got into contemporary long rifles I discovered many makers will "age" them to look old.  It took me a while to warm up to it, but now I totally understand it and don't mind it.  The OP can do whatever he wants, it's not up to anyone to pre-judge what "might" happen "one day" by a "novice buyer".  Aging is an accepted technique in this longrifle world.  As it is in the North South Skirmish Association, Colonial Williamsburg reenactors, and other places. 

Offline monro1066

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Re: ageing new brass
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2023, 02:17:16 AM »
ALR.org ........its truly a great site you have here... .I cannot get to shows due my location ...so the ALR
site is very important .
 I have an extensive K.Rifle library .....and recently KRF DVDs These DVDs are awesome  .Simply put I really require the sound advice
that I receive here that is kindly given and gratefully received  .This site is a bit of a life line .
My mind set on ageing brass is this.......im 63 and doubt anything I build now is going to look old whilst Im still alive .
My goal is not to deceive anyone now or in the future ....
Each will be marked this way and my children inhering know which are antique and which are built ,all are recorded.
Thank you all for the input    Im hoping to try the Mustard method Thanks Old Travelller/Bnewbry for recomending it .
......I just truly dont like shiny brass and that is my motivation to dull it down a bit .
Regds Don



Offline sbowman

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Re: ageing new brass
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2023, 02:35:25 AM »
Monroe,  I hear ya, don't post much but frequent this site, especially this winter since I'm sorta back into building/ finishing up some "neglected projects". LOL
If you want to age brass a quick down and dirty way is use any cold blue.  Most will turn clean degreased brass coal black. You can card it back with steel wool, ground pumice, scotchbrite etc to the desired patenia you want. If you want an even, "softer" patina similar to Daryl"s patchbox get a selenium based product from one of the jewelry supply houses. They also sell liver of sulphur products which is stronger than the selenium but will give the desired effect.

Steve

Offline RAT

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Re: ageing new brass
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2023, 03:02:04 AM »
Don... I don't like artificial ageing... I have to agree with Dan on that. But I'm with you on the really shiny/polished brass thing. I think a matte finish just makes brass look more like... well... brass... and not some plated plastic stuff. All I've ever done is use the dirty patch method described here. It really does work well, and it looks very "natural" and not over-done. It may take several applications. Just use your rifle and wipe the brass with the dirty patches after every time you clean it.
Bob

Offline John Cotterall

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Re: ageing new brass
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2023, 04:33:36 AM »
I don’t have experience with commercial products for aging brass. As others have said use your dirty cleaning patches. I learned this by accident my muzzle cap got really tarnished fast from use. My brass powder measure and powder flask are almost black from the contact with the burned black powder residue. Also I heard some where that using ammonia can cause cracks where the brass has been stressed/bent but I don’t have real knowledge on the chemical reaction of ammonia. Hope this helps 😁

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: ageing new brass
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2023, 02:34:51 PM »
Oh good gracious guys, this thread just proves how different people have different opinions. If we all liked the same thing our world would certainly be a dull place to live. Lets move on. I am locking this thread.
Dennis
"I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend" - Thomas Jefferson