.84 rifle barrel

[Tacksman45]

Hi everyone, I was wondering how thick a .84 rifle barrel would need to be at the breech and waist? What twist rate would be best for this caliber? Thanks!

Tacksman

[bigsmoke]

Reckon that would be called an 8 bore.
IIRC, the ones we made were about 1 1/2 at the breech and tapered to 1 1/4 at the muzzle.  I will have to check that tomorrow to be sure.
We ran the twist at 1:144 or however close the barrel maker could get to that.
The weight in the barrel was appreciated when it was taken up to a service load of 300 grains of Fg.
Our double rifle used somewhat thinner barrels but used the same powder charge.
I shot .820 ball out of it.
One fellow took a double 8 to Africa and shot a male lion with it.  It did a 1 1/2 flip backwards.  The ball went all the way through it lengthwise, shattered the pelvic girdle, exited and kept going.  Yep, lots of power in that load.  Wish I could remember the ballistics of it, but it has been 20+ years since I chronoed it.  Offhand it gave a 2" group at 50 yards, one each barrel.
John (Bigsmoke)

[Tacksman45]

Reckon that would be called an 8 bore.
IIRC, the ones we made were about 1 1/2 at the breech and tapered to 1 1/4 at the muzzle.  I will have to check that tomorrow to be sure.
We ran the twist at 1:144 or however close the barrel maker could get to that.
The weight in the barrel was appreciated when it was taken up to a service load of 300 grains of Fg.
Our double rifle used somewhat thinner barrels but used the same powder charge.
I shot .820 ball out of it.
One fellow took a double 8 to Africa and shot a male lion with it.  It did a 1 1/2 flip backwards.  The ball went all the way through it lengthwise, shattered the pelvic girdle, exited and kept going.  Yep, lots of power in that load.  Wish I could remember the ballistics of it, but it has been 20+ years since I chronoed it.  Offhand it gave a 2" group at 50 yards, one each barrel.
John (Bigsmoke)

Thanks John! Yes that would be an 8 bore. How long were those barrels? What kind of range could you get with those?

[Mike Brooks]

Generally those big bores were made for dangerous game in Africa at very close range. read "DEATH IN THE LONGRASS" by Capstick.

[Bsharp]

https://www.thegunworks.com/custprodgun.cfm?ProductID=513&do=detail&Cat2Option=yes

They sell a tapered 8 bore barrel, they may be able to supply the breech also.

[Bill Raby]

They made breech plugs for the 4 bore barrels that I got from them.

[bigsmoke]

Thanks John! Yes that would be an 8 bore. How long were those barrels? What kind of range could you get with those?

My personal preference for barrels of any kind is 32", so that was the standard length.  However, we offered options of as short as 26" or as long as 36"

A standard Hawken clanger at 130 yards (I think) was in danger.  I hit an NMLRA standing bear silhouette at 200 yards with it at a WWII rifle range and we had to climb down into the pit to retrieve it.  It didn't just tip over as a typical m/l rifle would have caused, it just flew backwards.  IIRC, I aimed at the head and held a bit right to compensate for the right barrel pointing in.  It hit about mid torso.

The 8 bore is a truly amazing firearm.

John (Bigsmoke)

[Steeltrap]

Interesting thread.  At what point does it's "label" go from rifle to cannon??   

[Longknife]

Interesting thread.  At what point does it's "label" go from rifle to cannon??   

When You can't lift it!

[Hungry Horse]

 You should be able to pick up one cheap, thats been shot once, and dropped once. I have seen several guns this size and bigger, and none of them get shot much.

 Hungry Horse

[bigsmoke]

Interesting thread.  At what point does it's "label" go from rifle to cannon??   

I think that happens when you put wheels under it.

[bigsmoke]

You should be able to pick up one cheap, thats been shot once, and dropped once. I have seen several guns this size and bigger, and none of them get shot much.

 Hungry Horse

Well, HH, you're right, they don't get shot much.  Not unless you are a masochist.  Like ol' Newton once said, for every action there is an opposite and equal reaction.  In other words, they do kick.  Stock design has a lot to do with felt recoil.  And then there is the economics of it as well.  In the 4 bore barrels I got from The Gun Works, a .980 r/b seemed to work pretty good.  Those weighed in at 1,450 grains per each.  You go through a pound of lead pretty quick.  And then there is the powder, 400 grains of Fg.  That's about 17 shots per pound.  And then a musket cap to set it off.  It's not an overly  frugal person's type of shooting.
But then, there is just something about shooting them that really gets the testosterone flowing.  As I have said many times in the past, a Yugo will get you to the grocery store just as well as a Corvette will.  Only it's not nearly as much fun.  Same thing.
John (Bigsmoke)

[Bill Raby]

You should be able to pick up one cheap, thats been shot once, and dropped once. I have seen several guns this size and bigger, and none of them get shot much.

 Hungry Horse

My 4 bore gets shot quite often.

[Daryl]

8 was a great all-round bore - for Africa. What a gun!!!

[Dphariss]

Interesting thread.  At what point does it's "label" go from rifle to cannon??   

At about 1 pounder

[Dphariss]

Hi everyone, I was wondering how thick a .84 rifle barrel would need to be at the breech and waist? What twist rate would be best for this caliber? Thanks!

Tacksman

You need a wall thickness that will give good wall thickness at the breech threads. So you probably need 1 1/4 at the breech at least. Since the breech threads are going the 7/8” or larger.
With a good modern barrel steel wall thickness other wise is not that critical. EXCEPT that here will be dovetails cut. And the need to be at least 040 and I might go .050 deep. At least for the key lug. Then you have to consider that if the wall is too thin at the dovetail it my create a loose spot when proved.
The large bore I suspect are lower pressure than a 50-54 loaded with 1/2 ball wieght and it probably will do anything an 8 bore needs to do with 25% to 30% of ball weight or a little less. Probably 8-10 drams of powder.
It also needes to weigh about 16 pounds minimum to reduce damage to the shooter. This is not said in jest. If we read Selous in “A Hunters Wanderings in Afrrica” we read that he never used anything the “drove” better than his 4 bore smooth bores. But were intended waterfowl use when made. But shooting them effected his shooting for the rest of his life. They only weighed 13-15 pounds if I recall correctly. There was a reason they had gunbearers. Heavy rifles might wear the hunter to the point he could not perform properly if he carried it all day. ANd many of these were shot barreled since in Africa sometimes the hunter was a pretty thick “cover”.

[borderdogs]

Generally those big bores were made for dangerous game in Africa at very close range. read "DEATH IN THE LONGRASS" by Capstick.

Mike,
That is a GREAT book!
Rob

[gunmaker]

Interesting thread.  At what point does it's "label" go from rifle to cannon??   

When You can't lift it!

Wheels