Repair Suggestions?

[elkhorne]

I recently acquired a nice turkey Fowler and upon getting ready to re-install the lock from shipping, I noticed a hairline crack from the rear of the breechplug tang back and down to the top edge of the lock panel. It can be felt but appears to be tight. I pressed around but was not able to open it up any. My next move is to remove the barrel and check for any pressure point at the back of the breechplug tang and also to check the fit of the barrel breech against the back of the barrel inlet. I would appreciate any thoughts you all might have on the seriousness of this and then on how to possible repair it in the least noticeable manner. Thanks and looking forward to hearing ideas and suggestions.
elkhorne

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I suggest that your stock (gun) has received a blow on the offside,perhaps down around the lower edge of the offside panel.  I would remove the lock and barrel and try flexing the wood to see if some thin CA (Cyanoacrylate) can be introduced to the crack, and then quickly squeeze the stock in a padded vise to close the crack.
It could be too, that your gun's lock is not well supported in its mortise and is being allowed to jump up at the rear end upon firing, thereby lifting the wood at the rear end above the lock mortise.  Removing the lock and barrel will (should) permit you to see where the crack is coming from.  Then flexing gently and intro of some glue should fix it.

[T*O*F]

Another alternative is that it's a thin slice of growth ring that is starting to flake off.  It may not be a deep crack.

[Daryl]

Indeed - might be a very small amount of wood that is cracked. I would attempt to wick in some "ULTRA" Thin CA, first checking to see if the crack actually runs into the lock mortise.
If it does, that is where I would introduce the CA - ULTRA Thin. Available at radio controlled model airplane kit stores.

[Bill in Md]

That looks like a grain "peel".If it is, take a thin knife and try to pry it open (after removing barrel) and shoot some wood glue under the peel and clamp it and forget it.....b

[elkhorne]

Guys,
Thanks for all your constructive comments and I will proceed with them. I’ve never heard of “grain peel” but I do not have much experience with walnut. I will get the barrel out and then with it and the lock removed see if I can se anymore. I will keep yo all posted on my progress. Thanks again to all who responded. I value your help and suggestions.
Respectfully,
elkhorne

[elkhorne]

Guys,
I have spent some time this evening studying the situation on the Fowler and think I have discovered the cause and probably the extent of damage. This will be somewhat lengthy but her goes.

After Taylor’s suggestions regarding the support for the lock, I went to install the lock and could not just drop the lock into the mortise even though it appeared well inlet. I had to cock the lock to half cock and it slipped in! The sear is tight down on the top of the trigger shoe and that puts undue pressure on the sear and trigger shoe from the inside and I figure that puts lots of internal pressure on the wood inside the inlet! Then I was studying the inside of the lock inlet and gently pushed up on the top of the lock panel from the inside and bingo! It opened up and I can see where the crack is from inside! On the photo of the lock inlet, you can see where I put a toothpick into the crack to expose it and it goes all the way back through the inlet.

I am going to remove the barrel to check for any further cracking or damage and then repair the wood crack as you guys have specified. One question I have, with a fairly large crack like this is very fluid super glue still the best for the repair or would something like diluted Titebond 3 be stronger? After gluing I will tightly wrap the area with surgical tubing and leave it for about 48 hours.

After the wood is repaired, I need to next address the unacceptable sear/trigger shoe pressure. Now you can see on the photo of the sear inlet, the trigger shoe comes up almost halfway through the inlet. I plan on taking the trigger out and carefully filing down the top of the trigger shoe until the lock drops in uncocked. Correct me but a slight pressure between the sear and the top of trigger shoe is ok  and can eliminate slop or rattle.

Please let me know what you all think of my discovery, and plan for repair. By the look of the frizzen, I’m not sure if this Fowler has ever been fired! Hanks in advance.
elkhorne

[Bill in Md]

Grain "peel" is simply a term I use to describe the natural separation of wood between growth rings that occurs due to an issue with the wood itself. Poor growing seasons, drought, wind and twist can cause this. A Sugar Maple plank that I have showed a peel after I roughed it down for barrel inletting. It won't be in the finished stock {barely} , but I still pried it up and spread some wood glue between the peel. It is as strong if not stronger than the wood itself now


I recommend wood glue or hide glue. Titebond is some really nice stuff. I have used it to repair several  self backed longbows that had "grain peel" on the belly side. Some bowyers actually use it in composite bows with much success. Your repair should be just fine. Half the fun of this stuff is solving problems, and solving them in the old ways.

[Bill in Md]

Was just looking at the pictures of the gun again.....After you glue it and clamp it, it looks like you could pin it with a 1/16th pin. If you blued it, it would be hard to notice. That may give you a little more peace of mind.....b

[bob in the woods]

Based on the extent that you can expand that crack, you should have no trouble getting some titebond in there. Clamp it up and when dry the joint will be stronger than the rest of the stock.  The trigger needs to be filed down. I like to have it just a hair from the sear arm

[GrizG]

I've been around this block with stocks and fine woodworking projects...

Initial prep would be to take care of the interference problem. If you detect any oil soaking of the wood (common in guns stored butt down/muzzle up) you may have to apply whiting with acetone to draw the oil out (available from Brownell's). After that I'd squeeze the crack together and apply paste wax to the finished surfaces to limit glue from sticking to them. If the crack does not stay aligned when you squeeze it you may have to install the lock while gluing it up to keep things in place. An application of a rust preventative (perhaps cosmoline) would be needed on the lock. If the mortise has some space around the lock plastic cling wrap may work...

For cracks like this I use regular wood glue. Titebond II would be my choice here... or any other PVA glue for that matter. The various cyanoacrylate glues (e.g., Superglue) are too brittle and often fail under shear loads and vibration [you do plan to shoot this right? ;~)]. I'd suggest thinning the glue a bit with water so it flows better--add a VERY small amount of water at a time until it will flow adequately. Apply the glue* then squeeze the joint with your hands, remove visible squeeze out, then clamp it... surgical tubing may work well here... overnight. Remove the lock and let the stock dry for several days before messing with it again. This to allow the moisture absorbed by the wood to evaporate. Then clean up any remaining squeeze out.  If the crack line on the outside is aligned but visible shellac stick in an appropriate color may be all you need to make it "disappear."

*Regarding application. I would avoid opening the crack too far for fear of breaking the piece off. I use either compressed air or a vacuum to get glue into cracks like this. In this case relatively low pressure compressed air would be the option... Any kind of spatula (metal, wood, or plastic) is going to be too thick to get glue deep into the crack unless you break the piece off completely... probably not a good idea.

[GrizG]

Grain "peel" is simply a term I use to describe the natural separation of wood between growth rings that occurs due to an issue with the wood itself. Poor growing seasons, drought, wind and twist can cause this. A Sugar Maple plank that I have showed a peel after I roughed it down for barrel inletting. It won't be in the finished stock {barely} , but I still pried it up and spread some wood glue between the peel. It is as strong if not stronger than the wood itself now


I recommend wood glue or hide glue. Titebond is some really nice stuff. I have used it to repair several  self backed longbows that had "grain peel" on the belly side. Some bowyers actually use it in composite bows with much success. Your repair should be just fine. Half the fun of this stuff is solving problems, and solving them in the old ways.

This type of damage is typically referred to as "shake." Shake is rather common and can be caused by the events mentioned above as well as impact during tree felling. However, research has found that it is most commonly caused by bacterium that enters the tree via the roots.

I concur that if carefully glued with a PVA type glue the crack should cause no further problems.

[elkhorne]

Thanks all for your ideas, guidance and suggestions. GrizG thanks also for the compressed air idea with the slightly diluted Titebond glue to get it to penetrate the crack as far as possible. Bob and Bill thanks as well for the trigger fit idea and the potential for a pin to strengthen the wrist area. Got to get some fresh glue and proceed with the repairs.
elkhorne

[Nordnecker]

Glad you figured out the problem. Looks like you’ll be able to make a good repair. Please let us know how it goes.

[NRFord]

Grain "peel" is simply a term I use to describe the natural separation of wood between growth rings that occurs due to an issue with the wood itself. Poor growing seasons, drought, wind and twist can cause this. A Sugar Maple plank that I have showed a peel after I roughed it down for barrel inletting. It won't be in the finished stock {barely} , but I still pried it up and spread some wood glue between the peel. It is as strong if not stronger than the wood itself now


I recommend wood glue or hide glue. Titebond is some really nice stuff. I have used it to repair several  self backed longbows that had "grain peel" on the belly side. Some bowyers actually use it in composite bows with much success. Your repair should be just fine. Half the fun of this stuff is solving problems, and solving them in the old ways.

Technical term for "peel" is SHAKE. nearing 40 years as a Hardwood Lumber inspector, sawmill owner, seen a lot of it over the years. This is not an example of shake...

[Mike Brooks]

Looks like a possible recoil crack to me. Or, possibly the tang inlet is a bit too narrow around the bolster and is wedging that piece of wood off. I'd have that barrel off of there pronto , and see what's going on. It's not a shake or wood peel. A couple strokes of the file on the trigger would work fine.

[kutter]

I don't know peel from shake,,but from looking at the pics,,I'd first take the bbl & the trigger mechanism out of the wood and have a good look at how things are put together.


That crack on the inside as it looks in the first pic if I'm seeing it correctly is wide open being held that way for the pic with a wedge of some white material.

That is a very long crack.. all the way from the breech end of the bbl to back end of the lock inlet on the inside. Probably extends farther.

I would suspect how the bbl and plug are inletted as well. Plus how the trigger plate and all the other parts are seated, the tang bolt fits (if it is canted or fits smoothly down thru), how well the breech plug is inletted,,,all those important things.

Poor inletting and them just squeezing the parts together with the help of the fasteners can simply crack the wood. We all know that.
Here's stock that hasn't seen use yet , so why not do some careful lookin' and fix things before they take over. Then your are just trying to catch up.

The trigger shouldn't push on the sear bar with any amt of force. There should be some play betw them.
Take some off of the trigger blade.
If you want a truly silent trigger w/no take-up, then fit a simple light weight spring to the trigger itself to give it rearward tension .

That 'little flakey crack' (technical term) on the top is the least of the problems to be tackled. That's an easy fix/cover up.
It's what has caused it and to fix those problems and any others hidden in there first.

[elkhorne]

Mike and utter,
Thanks very much and I fully intend on doing what you all have suggested. This weekend, I’m “carefully” pulling the barrel and then the trigger so I can see anything else going on. Then I will glue everything up and use light air pressure to try and force slightly diluted glue into all areas of the crack. Kutter, you are right, so I could get a photo of the crack, I slipped a small flat toothpick in for the picture. Thanks again.
elkhorne

[bluenoser]

Some excellent advice has been provided and I have little to add.
I have dealt with similar cracks many times - in both firearms and in the cabinetmaking business and have a bit of a trick for getting glue into the crack.  Slight air pressure combined with flexing works well and PVA (Titebond is a PVA glue) has been my adhesive of choice.
Here is the trick.  Draw some glue into a small-diameter plastic drinking straw.  Open the crack, flatten the end of the straw and insert into the crack.  Blow the glue into the crack, flex and repeat as necessary.  I have never diluted the glue because it had never occurred to me.  Sounds like a good idea.

One final bit of advice:  Do a clamping dry run before gluing.  A wet glue joint is not the time to determine the best way to clamp.

[Mule Brain]

I am following this thread, and interesting advice given. I sold this gun to Elkhorn, and didn't see the crack. I think it actually was there, and I just didn't see it.
I don't think it has anything to do with recoil, as I am nearly certain the gun hasn't been fired. I may be wrong on that as well. 

[Dave R]

Lots of EXCELLENT first hand advice have been given to rectify this issue!
I am adding some in that possibly has been mentioned previously however gleaning the information
I don’t think it has been mentioned!
Inspect the rear lock screw hole drilled thru the tang and see if there is clearance between the screw shank and the tang hole! It’s possible that if there is no clearance between the two upon firing the guns
 recoil is exerted from the barrel / tang to the rear lock screw and forcing the lock to the back of the lock mortise and cracking the wood! If so remove the barrel & drill the rear lock screw hole in the tang
Oversize.  A TIP GIVEN TO ME MANY YEARS AGO BY MARVIN KEMPER. 👏🏻

[xx54]

I had a similar issue with an LC Smith double barrel. I went to the internet and began searching. There are people out there that repair gun stocks for a living. I talked to one guy in particular that gave me good advice that I will pass along. There is only one way to fix this, drill holes from inside of the lock area into the cracked area in the wrist and the tang area, if need to. Mix up acraglas with dark dye and tueline is the recommended thinner for it. Get yourself a plastic syringe from the drug store and fill with this acraglas mixture and when you inject this into the holes, it will come out the cracks on the surface. If need to, drill more holes and inject more acraglas. You can insert steel pins if needed. Your holes should be just big enough for the tip of the syringe to go in for a good seal. The tips are tapered.

[Tenmile]

Flat-sawn lumber will usually show flame, or cathedral grain. This will sometimes raise, creating one of the more difficult defects to deal with. You can plane it one direction and have areas of lifted grain, and reverse direction and have it raise in another spot. It is nearly impossible to sand it out. I think this is what we are seeing in this stock. Rift sawn and quarter sawn will not behave this way. I spent forty years in the sash and door and molding business and saw lots of kinds of problems, from casehardening to wet lumber to powder-post beetles. I was still learning when I retired. All the advice given here is good. Titebond is about as good for wood as any other glue. One sure repair would be to put a clever inlay over the crack. I’ve seen inlays on the bottom of forestocks that just may be hiding a ramrod hole run-out.
Lynn

[Jim Kibler]

Appears to simply be a crack to my eyes, and we see a LOT of wood defects here.  I think the confusion in thinking it's something else is just the angle of the crack relative to the wrist surface.  This could have been in the wood to start with or could happen other ways on the finished stock.

Bottom line is if you get good glue down in the crack and clamp it properly it will be fine.  As others have mentioned make sure the metal parts aren't stressing the wood.

Jim

[elkhorne]

Tenmile, xx54, and Jim,
Thank you all for your added inputs. I will definitely check all the points you guys have made.the way this thread has gone, it could just about added to the tutorials for “wrist area crack repair”. There is some great advice and a checklist of things to check. Planning on starting on it this weekend.
Thanks again!
elkhorne