wood screws?

[taterbug]

Where are u guys getting oval head, slotted wood screws these days?  I know there was a thread about a year ago, but cant find it now...

[Stoner creek]

Try Blacksmith Bolt on the web

[T*O*F]

Jack Garner at TN Valley Manufacturing has them.
Personally, I believe in buying from those who are dedicated to our sport/hobby/vocation.  Outside vendors do nothing to keep MLing alive.

[Ray Barbarow]

I purchased several from Muzzloaders Builders Supply last week. Great service!

[2 shots]

 track of the wolf has them

[GrizG]

Out of curiosity, is anyone hand filing screws to make them?

[bob in the woods]

Out of curiosity, is anyone hand filing screws to make them?

Yes. I have done it many times. My friend came in my shop, took a look at what I was doing and said " you do know that you can buy those by the box at the hardware store ! ?"   He then left, shaking his head.  Frankly, if you are using a commercial lock and barrel, I don't see the point. I do it because .....just because 

[bluenoser]

Being a packrat, I have a sizeable hoard of old un-plated slotted flat head wood screws and add to it at every opportunity.  I just toss them onto the lathe or drill press and file the oval.  A hand drill would do as well.  The result is individuality that machine made oval heads lack.  In addition, one has an opportunity to swage the slot narrower before filing.

[taterbug]

thanks for all the reminders guys.  Yes, the parts are out there, if you can remember where, or how, to look.

[john bohan]

Log Cabin shop ,$2.00 per doz. whatever size you need.

[GrizG]

Out of curiosity, is anyone hand filing screws to make them?

Yes. I have done it many times. My friend came in my shop, took a look at what I was doing and said " you do know that you can buy those by the box at the hardware store ! ?"   He then left, shaking his head.  Frankly, if you are using a commercial lock and barrel, I don't see the point. I do it because .....just because 

Cool... wasn't sure anyone here was doing it! I understand that sentiment! I made wood screws that went into guns at Williamsburg. One day I made an assortment of screws for Dave Wagner. I was at the vise near the window and front counter off to the side of the primary interpreter. Visitors would stop by me I would quietly explain what I was doing so as to not disrupt the main speaker. Some kids came in and watched me for a while and I explained things to them. Then I spoke with another visitor... When I went back to my task I realized the kids and all the screws were gone! I went out the door and found them showing their parents "the screws I gave them." Their parents were quite embarrassed... 

[Pukka Bundook]

Same as Bob in the woods here.
Made them lots of times, but usually not the tiny oes for patch boxes.
On a gun that's all homemade bar the lock, it only seems right to make the sidenails and screws.

Best,
R.

[bob in the woods]

Same as Bob in the woods here.
Made them lots of times, but usually not the tiny oes for patch boxes.
On a gun that's all homemade bar the lock, it only seems right to make the sidenails and screws.

Best,
R.

I agree 

[GrizG]

Here are a few I filed... Thick heads so they could be clocked.

[taterbug]

OK, now y'all are just showing off.  Nice work tho'!   I can barely see well enough to get a screw driver into the slot!

But if anybody wants to make a supply of wood screws for me I'll be proud to use them and give you credit.  Won't need too many, I never did build very fast, and seem to be slowing down.  And I'm cheap!!

[Jerry V Lape]

I am somewhat surprised that someone hasn't started making screw plates for our trade.  Wouldn't have to be set up for too many different sizes.  That would produce screws authentic to long rifles i think.

[GrizG]

Screw plates would be useful for the "machine screws" but not for the "wood screws." Wood screws were filed by hand. A chamfer plate was used to shape the counter sink but a die wouldn't work for the threads due to the tapered shaft.

You could make your own screw plates and taps...  Without getting too deep into the weeds of modern tap and die design, making a set is an iterative process. Start by filing a screw (bolt) and turning it into a tap (lead, flutes and hardening/tempering). Use the tap to thread a drilled hole. Chamfer a lead, cut flutes, deburr, and then harden and temper the screw plate. To get a more refined set make a screw with the screw plate, turn it into a tap, thread a new hole in the screw plate...

I made a chamfer plate for various sized chamfers by drilling and counter sinking holes. Then I used a sharp chisel and a file maker's hammer to raise the teeth. See for an demonstration of how that was done. Check out the other videos on that channel too!

[bob in the woods]

GrizG  Thanks.  The frizzen jaw "screw"  in my photo is filed and then threaded with a screw plate The wood screws depict the process...round stock filed to square, then octagon then round, then tapered...and finally, the threads are filed in. I'll have to try your method of using a chamfer plate to creat the counter sink portion. 

[Pukka Bundook]

Gents,
For those wishing to make their own gun screws for 16th or 17th century arms, here is a thread bu the late Michael Tromner.
I do not think you will see such photos anywhere else.
Michael had a huge collection, and was Very willing to dismount all the parts and show us the details. This thread just covers scrws.

Best,
Richard.


http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7715

[Mattox Forge]

Here are a few I filed... Thick heads so they could be clocked.

Did you cut a shallow thread to get the helix started and then use that as you filing guide to make these?

Mike

[Mattox Forge]

Here are some from an English military rifle built in circa 1800 I am restoring.
Buttplate




Patch box Latch spring


Patch box hinge


These came out because the wood and screw had corroded/decayed together and the screws were essentially loose in the stock. The wood had turned to dust around the screws. The amount of corrosion on the iron parts in contact with the wood makes me wonder if the blank had been salt cured or something.

Mike

[James Wilson Everett]

Guys,

Here is how wood screws were made in the flintlock period.

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=18831.msg177474#msg177474

Jim

[Mattox Forge]

James,

Thank you for posting the link to this thread. I have some 19th century (maybe even early 20th) swaging dies that I can make plates for to do this. I thought that they must have used some sort of mechanical aide to get the threads to be so nice. I couldn't imagine the shops in Birmingham hand filing screw threads on lathes. It would have occupied too much time with a skilled craftsman on an expensive machine needed for other production.  A swage would allow the screw threads to be quickly completed on a bench after the lathe or forging work was done.

I was wondering is the patch box screw was even original, since it looked so much like a modern screw, however, I am sure it is after seeing your tutorial. It was no doubt done exactly the way you describe in a large firm dedicated to making screws, which must have been in huge demand during the Napoleonic wars.

Mike

[GrizG]

Here are a few I filed... Thick heads so they could be clocked.

Did you cut a shallow thread to get the helix started and then use that as you filing guide to make these?

Mike

After making the shaft round (using the square, octagon, etc. approach) and using a chamfer plate for the head chamfer I filed the threads. Holding the stock in the vice I first filed them on one side eyeballing the spacing. Then I turned the stock 180° and filed the threads on the other side halfway between those on the first side. Then I rotated the stock 90° and connected the two sides. I repeated that process until they were complete.

[James Wilson Everett]

Guys and Mattox Forge,

The very clear photos of the 1800's period gun shows the screw made by three different processes.

1. The butt plate screws are clearly made by the swage process.  This can be seen by the smoothly rounded thread valleys; the thread tips of a greater diameter than the unthreaded shaft area; the obvious split lines at the tips of the threads.  See the following photos:



Along with this recently made swaged screw:



2. The patch box latch spring screw is clearly made by the filing process.  This can be seen by the V-shaped thread valleys; the thread tips not of a greater diameter than the unthreaded shaft area; no split lines at the tips of the threads.  See the following photo:



3. The patch box hinge screw is clearly made by a machining process.  This can be seen by the square shaped thread valleys; the thread tips not of a greater diameter than the unthreaded shaft area; no split lines at the tips of the threads; the thread extending to a sharp point.  This type of machined wood screw was first patented in 1847.  The drawing below was dated 1846, the patent was granted in 1847.  This screw clearly does not pre-date this.  the screw may be a replacement screw, or the entire gun may have been assembled post 1847.



Knowing some technical details of "How Did They Do That"  (HDTDT) can be a great help in assigning dates.

Jim