Carolina gun ramrod pipe sizes

[James Rogers]

Would anyone have the I/D measurements of the pipes of an original Carolina type trading gun?

[mtlonghunter]

Do you think it was a standard size from gun to gun

[2 shots]

would'nt  caliber determine that?

[James Rogers]

Do you think it was a standard size from gun to gun

I do. Standard sizing in batches of production. For example, whatever
Birmingham cottage set-up was supplying say Thomas Richards with pipes was cranking them out en masse with the same equipment. Even if Bumford was using a different supplier or making in house I have to think they were all close in size to another maker.
I guess I also need to add that if anyone knows the ramrod hole size in the lower forestock of the Thomas Richards, Bumford, the one found in the Suwannee or any other that would be good to know as well.

[Clark Badgett]

Source-For Trade or Treaty
The Bomford gun is listed as having ramrod pipes 1.258 long, .326 inside diameter, .025 material thickness.
Sizes on the other trade guns ramrod pipe IDs run from roughly 5/16” thru 13/32”, and up to nearly a 1/4” difference in lengths.
While the pipes may be of a similar design, there was a lot of differences from gun to gun, mainly in the spacing of the reinforcing rings.

[James Rogers]

Thanks so much Clark.
Pretty much what I expected except that 13/32 I/d is a tad larger than I assumed. I had also wondered if any of the two pipes on any of these guns were made in a progressive sizing towards the muzzle. I assume these are mainly measurements off of dug parts? The variations in length, sizing and structural ring design would most likely be from production date and maker sourcing.

[Clark Badgett]

Thanks so much Clark.
Pretty much what I expected except that 13/32 I/d is a tad larger than I assumed. I had also wondered if any of the two pipes on any of these guns were made in a progressive sizing towards the muzzle. I assume these are mainly measurements off of dug parts? The variations in length, sizing and structural ring design would most likely be from production date and maker sourcing.

Actually, these are from intact muskets. There are a lot of extant trade guns still out there. I've not set up a spread sheet yet to see if I can tell a pattern from the different ring spacings on RR pipes, and if I tried I'm sure it would probably come down to different suppliers of parts really.

[Levy]

James,  As you know, I worked on the Carolina Gun that came out of the Suwannee River.  the ramrod pipes were made from pretty thin material and may have become thinner from being in the river.  The applied ridges were undoubtedly for adding some strength.  I was never able to remove the remains of the ramrod from the stock.  The terminal end of the ramrod was visible inside the lock mortise and I would say that it was less than 1/4" in diameter and came down to pretty much a point.  After years of drying and treatment with PEG, it might come out now, but I think I'd be afraid to try to remove it without breaking something.  I also worked on several Type C French trade guns from LA.  I never saw a ramrod  pipe that would take anything larger than 5/16".  James Levy

[James Rogers]

James,
Thank you for your input. This information is exactly what I was thinking based off of studying fowling pieces while sadly taking little notice to those traits in trade guns in my past.