cold rust blueing

[Scott Semmel]

When bluing using whakun bay browning/bluing do you boil after every carding or after you develop a uniform brown? I have done this in the past only boiling after the brown was uniform. The first time it came out fine, the second time the result was slightly mottled. I wondered if boiling after each carding was more consistent.
By the by if you want to give yourself cause to say lots of bad words spill some whakun bay on a walnut stock that is ready for finishing. Blinkin instant coal black spots! and not surface spots either.

[Acer Saccharum]

Could hard water or minerals in the water cause spotting/mottling?

If I want blue, I boil after every carding. PITA.

Do you put the Wahkon Bay on the barrel when the metal is warm or cold? The barrel must be grease/oil free to avoid beading up. You will also need three or four apps to get a good blue or brown.

I use a damp box for developing rust. Speeds the process and I think it makes for a more even finish.

Blue/black from Wahkon Bay. Card off with stainless steel fine bristle brush(from Brownell's) I think I did five or six apps until I was completely sick of doing this. It's a very very durable finish, however.

[sydney]

Hi-I card carefully after every rusting session  i don t  rust for very long as i like
     a fine finish -it usually take 7 to 10  coats on s/s barrels
          Sydney

[Scott Semmel]

I don't warm the metal before application, I do use a box to control humidity. I was was wondering about the water I boil in, my tap water has a lot of lime in it maybe I'll buy  a gallon of distilled.
Beautiful gun in the picture, when I see work like that it makes me think I should take up basket weaving.

[rick landes]

I have not used that product. However I have used a couple of others; Pinkerton's and Mark Lee's.

Pinkerton's is specific to use distilled water to avoid spots...
Mark Lee's does not specify (as best I recall)...

Pinkerton's was slower to react and resulted in a more matte finish IMHO. Mark Lee's was recommended to me by Jim Chambers a few years back...easy to use.

I used water from a local artesian well for my boiling and it left this lime stone colored slit on the parts. I thought (insert your own favored oath ) and carded it off. It gave an excellent even coat...one of the best with the Pinkerton product. Go figure.

The mottled color may be your inconsistency in degreasing or application. If it is the second put more coats on; it will self equalize. If the first, you may have to restart from step one...

Overall Lee's is the fastest. I can do a gun in about 4-5 hours. As one part is boiling I rust the next. It is a nice cycle. Make sure to neutralize the process in a solution of one gallon water to one pound baking soda. This will take the graphite color to a nice settled black blue. Heat the metal with a heat gun and oil it well while warm. Some sources recommend leaving a part dry for 24 hours prior to oiling as it toughens the coat. I do not see the difference in practice.

[Dphariss]

I boil in tap water that is well aerated.
I did use Wahkon bay brown and AF stain mixed. The brown worked sorta OK but adding the AF stain really made it work.
Pinkertons would quit rusting in 3 coats where I live on 4150 barrels. Never bought another bottle. might be OK on screw stock.
If you make your own the mix must be acidic but too much acid will remove the finish back to white metal when applied. The higher acid stuff will work for "fuming" though it used carefully.
Dan

[T*O*F]

Pinkertons would quit rusting in 3 coats

Pinkerton's is a detective agency.
Pilkington's is a rust blue solution.

[Dphariss]

Pinkertons would quit rusting in 3 coats

Pinkerton's is a detective agency.
Pilkington's is a rust blue solution.

Heh heh!
I just pulled it of the previous post.
Guess it looked close enough
 Don't work for me in any case.
Dan

[T*O*F]

Just last month I looked at all of Brownells alternatives and decided to give their "Classic Rust Blue" a try.  We'll see how it works.  I picked it over Pilkington's and Mark Lee's products, although I did order a bottle of Mark's Express Brown to try too.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Does Homer Dangler's Browning Solution turn blue when boiled??

[rick landes]

Thanks for the correction...

I have not used "king" in about 7 or 8 years and the label fell off long ago. I like Mark Lee's SO much better I doubt I'd use the other again.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

The English called it "blacking" a barrel rather than blueing, I believe, but it can be quite blue, as in Acer's example above.  I have a bottle of Neider browning solution mixed up from Angier's book by a gunsmith in Marysville, BC.  As a browning solution, it imparts a lovely plum brown, and when boiled between applications, is very black.
Tim, I think Homer's brown will also turn blue/black when carded hard, and then boiled in distilled water.  And Tom is right, it is a very durable and rust proof finish.

[Pete Allan]

I have used Pilkingtons for many years and have had very good results all but once. That time I did an English patch box but boiled it in our tap water which pitted the surface so bad I had to refile the surface rather than just sand it. That time taught me to only use distilled water for the boiling. When distilled water is less than $1 a gallon  why take a chance

[jwh1947]

One cold blue stands out in my experience.  Van's. If you prep properly you can approximate a hot blue job with this stuff, and it wears well, doesn't smell, and tone can be controlled.  We've refinished complete guns with this stuff and customers can't tell between it and a hot salt reblue.  Again, preparation is the key and it helps to have a good blaster.  Use silicon medium and you can actually produce a dark parkerized-appearing finish, athough it wears better than phosphate finishes because the stuff actually impregnates the steel.

If you look at the chemistry and the activity of blueing products on the market at the molecular level, many, if not most commercial "cold blues" are little more than paint. Study it for yourself, don't take my word.

Some gunshops will not like my honest report of actual experiences because they are selling this work as hot-blue work.  No real problem, you'll be long dead before this blue job wears off.  It's just a trade secret that many of us know.  You'll be happy forever with the job and we (you, too) can do it for 1/2 hour in the blaster and other final prep, and 20 minutes with a clean toothbrush and Van's.  Buff out, if you wish, it's in there.

[rick landes]

Jerry,
Where is Van's available?

[Randy Hedden]

Jerry,
Where is Van's available?

Rick,

Just go to Google and search for "Van's cold blue".

Randy Hedden

[jim meili]

Van's works really well for small parts like screws. Just throw them in a small container of the stuff and they turn a nice blue black. Don't forget them or you will have a nice little blue part with lots of pits in it. Of course, like was said many times before they have to be clean.
Jim

[jwh1947]

Available from a man named Maloney on the Internet, under "Van's"  Also at some guns shows.   About $10.00 for a bottle that does about 4 guns.  A quart does 10 times as many guns for about $40.00. JWH

[jim meili]

Van's can be purchased from:

C.S. Van Gordon and Son, Inc.
1815 Main Street
Bloomer, WI 54724
715-568-2612

It was originally developed by these folks to be used by machinists to blacken metal before marking.

[Long John]

Would this rust bluing be appropriate for a rifle that was originally made with a blued barrel back in the 18th century.  In talking with the owner of RCA 53 he mentioned that when the barrel was removed there were traces of blue color, indicating that the barrel had been blued - ostensibly when it was initially built.  I am reluctant to fire blue a barrel due to the potential for scale buildup inside the bore.  Would browning first and then boiling give me a reasonable equivalent?

Thanks for your thoughts on this.

Best Regards,

JMC

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Whether it's appropriate to rust blue a longrifle, I can't say.  But I have the impression from reading on ALR that rifles were charcoal blued.  Rust bluing gives a different colour but it's a very durable and pleasing finish.  Just brown it, card it hard, and boil it between applications in distilled water.  Then repeat until you get the depth or intensity of blue you want.
Since browning apparently did not come into vogue until nearly the beginning of the 19th century, it is unlikely that rifles in North America were rust blued.  My thinking is that they are browned first, then blued.  So why would there not have been builders who skipped the second step, and just browned them?

[Leatherbelly]

The English called it "blacking" a barrel rather than blueing, I believe, but it can be quite blue, as in Acer's example above.  I have a bottle of Neider browning solution mixed up from Angier's book by a gunsmith in Marysville, BC.  As a browning solution, it imparts a lovely plum brown, and when boiled between applications, is very black.
Tim, I think Homer's brown will also turn blue/black when carded hard, and then boiled in distilled water.  And Tom is right, it is a very durable and rust proof finish.

Geez, Taylor, isn't that a marvelous look on Acer's pix? I wonder if period correct for my new Beck rifle? Dark rifle, dark(blue-black) barrel?
Acer, wow, nice blacking on your rifle picture. Beautifull metal work too!

[Rolf]

Has anyone tried to rust blue using "Laurel mountain barrel brown and degreaser"?
According to the instructions, you can use it for rust bluing and you don't have to worry about fingerpints on the barrel.

Best regards

Rolfkt

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I disregard the advice about fingerprints.  In my experience, polished metal better be degreased or you'll get a lousy brown.

[sydney]

I agree with Taylor-i use cotton gloves when blueing