Are you comfortable or reluctant to post your builds?

[Wingshot]

Bill Raby and his video series is THE spark that eventually led me to this forum and ultimately to diving in and starting the process. I can’t express how important his contribution (as well as many others I’ve discovered) is to sustainability of this hobby/pastime, whatever it is to you. I’m definitely a visual learner but books are important too and I believe that building a library of titles that suit your interests is as important as collecting good tools and the like. Yes, it’s an expensive endeavor but in todays world, what isn’t? I will say that the one thing that gave me the most anxiety in the early stages of my diving into building from a blank was the reoccurring mention of people discussing tools/jigs that they made. It wasn’t until I actually started the work that I started visualizing the how and why those topics were being discussed and a great deal of the satisfaction I’m taking away from this new passion of mine is successfully fashioning and using widgets that I either copied or thought up myself just based on the need to solve a problem. Gun building is my chicken soup for the soul! Lol.

[Stonehouse john]

Hi Rich,

Thank you for the analogy about "hourly wage" vs. professional musicians who also play for the love of it.  That's an image I'll be hanging on to.  It describes much of the work I do in my "real" job; not nearly fast enough production to ever get rich from but fulfilling enough that I don't really mind.

And thanks for asking this question, I've kinda wondered if there were other folks like me out there.  Now I guess maybe there are.  I fall into the "reluctant" group.  I truly respect and value the incredible knowledge base on this forum and I've followed the posts here almost daily for many years.  The commitment to craft and history found here is just amazing and if you ask a question here you're likely to get better information than you could hope to find anywhere else that I know of.

I'm not any kind of professional gun builder but I built my first flintlock rifle almost 40 years ago and I believe that my skills have grown steadily since then.  I just don't usually post my work on the internet.  Not here or anywhere else.  It's amazing to me how often something publicly posted with the very best of intentions can be misinterpreted, hijacked, or just plain take some weird turn that you'd never see coming once it's "out in the world".  I find it surprisingly stressful.  I'm an introvert by nature, which is why shop-time and time in the woods are my two comfort zones.   I suppose that I have regretted a great many things I've said in my life but have almost never regretted anything that I didn't say.  Posting my work seems to fall into some kind of a similar category.

John

[Dwshotwell]

I finished my first build from a blank this summer, and I had intended to post it but decided not to do so. I absolutely love it and am terribly proud of it, but it has its flaws. I guess it’s not so much that I don’t want criticism, but I’m well aware of what I got wrong, and at least have a vague idea of what I did right - but I just don’t think my work adds a lot to the discussion. Nobody is going to look at what I built and wonder how I did certain things and try to emulate it. I’m a beginner with a ton to learn. I have all the parts to start on number 2, but I’m dealing with some health issues so it’s on hold for a month or two.

[Dennis Glazener]

  When I first joined the ALR I asked a question about L-R  locks. The reply was sell it their junk. I was making  a scratch built gun at the time. Well for a piece of junk it has served me very well.
What I'm getting at is think before we reply. I'm as guilty as the next person. Your ego is not my problem.

Mike,
A lot of us have long memories, I first started building my Gillespie Rifles in late 1990's and used only L&R locks I did not have good experiences with them with the exception of their Durs Egg which were great but not of the period I needed. I have heard their quality has improved but I still shy away from them for locks that I have had far better experiences with. Probably not fair to L&R but bad memories still linger and not enough difference in price for me to try them again.

Hope to see you at Knoxville show,
Dennis

[t.caster]

I guess I've been posting more pics on Facebook and texting with my customers lately than here. It's just easier and I have a ton of pics on my phone I need to download to my computer files where I have created a folder for each build.
I am now finishing a British Fowler with a Bobby Hoyt 16 ga x 42" barrel, Kibler fowler lock and a crazy figured cherry stock! I will be posting that soon.

[godutch]

  Just a thought re: posting and posts.  I think it would be helpful if there were a 'Like' function on posts and replies. As it stands a reply needs to be typed out to register any type of acknowlegement to a post and I believe that gets 'blown off' more often than not. I know I've done it many times where I would've loved to have given a 'like' but instead just moved on.  A simple click on a like button would serve to increase 'responses' quite a bit were one available.  I routinely see posts with hundreds of views and just a few responses. (?)   As I said it's just my thought/observation.   Cheers, Fred

[P.W.Berkuta]

I will post pictures when I feel it is necessary. I also like comments from people who KNOW what they are talking about not the "armchair computer builders". Some of the folks that reply don't know a screwdriver from a chisel . Without offending more people I will end here .

[oldtravler61]

  Maybe the ALR should pick a handful of selected people. That all building questions go through them only ?   So that non pro builders don't bother the other members on here with their questions ?
  They could also have a forum for amateur builders to show their work.
Plus a site for the pro builders too..?  Perfect....?
  Maybe the requirements for the pro advice group.  You will have to have built 200-300 guns or more ?  Or twenty-five years of experience to be considered into this select group ?
  Heaven forbid us amateur builder's offer a suggestion or ask questions.
  Yep I can see this as a great thing...  NOT....
  Oldtravler
 
 
   

[rich pierce]

Mike, good suggestions. I love the brainstorming. One issue we have is self-defining as hacks or masters. I might know of some height throughput builders who are not considered masters, and several with maybe 50 builds under their belts whose work is among the very best. I’m not sure categories will work. I think that the person posting making it clear what they want is one way that can work. And for all who start a thread to realize they can delete the whole thing at any time.

I posted this below on the “building from blanks in the 1980s” thread.

If builders who post here state what they want for feedback, whether a work in progress or a finished gun, their contributions will help forward the craft and community.

We pre-suppose that everyone building a gun wants to know how it could be improved from a master’s point of view. That is not so. Some, maybe many builders find completing a kit that results in a very fine-shooting, reliable gun that is several steps above a manufactured gun, a worthy goal. Good on them!

No critique requested
“Here’s a turkey gun I just finished. It’s a big step up from my TC with a smoothbore drop in barrel. A real long gun flintlock.”

I need help
“I’ve got this Christians Spring build in progress from a blank and I’m trying to figure out how to handle the stepped wrist transition. Please take a look and tell me how it’s going and how you do it.”

“I’m shaping the lock panels on this one and it will be my first attempt at lock moldings. Well, second. I dug things up last time I tried. I simply don’t know how to do the “beaver tails” at the wrist. So I need to leave the wrist oversized then pare it down after carving out the beaver tails?”

What would be next level?
I’m done. What would you suggest I improve or work on in future builds?
“Here’s my finished 1770s Reading gun similar to RCA 21-23. Open for critique. I like this style and want to get to where I really have it down.

[oldtravler61]

  Rich I was being sarcastic. I and others no doubt are tired of being slammed for asking maybe stupid questions to some. But to us we feel they are worth asking.
Most of us are here to help. That's why we comment. Because we have made mistakes and this is how we fixed them. We didn't comment because we considered we were " experts" or arm chair computer hero's.
We just tried to help and nothing else.
 We are all on here to learn on how to improve our work. I appreciate everything you and the other moderators are trying to do. 
But I won't set back and let some self proclaimed "Expert" run members down..!

[Dennis Glazener]

  Just a thought re: posting and posts.  I think it would be helpful if there were a 'Like' function on posts and replies. As it stands a reply needs to be typed out to register any type of acknowlegement to a post and I believe that gets 'blown off' more often than not. I know I've done it many times where I would've loved to have given a 'like' but instead just moved on.  A simple click on a like button would serve to increase 'responses' quite a bit were one available.  I routinely see posts with hundreds of views and just a few responses. (?)   As I said it's just my thought/observation.   Cheers, Fred

Would be nice but unfortunate our forum software package does not support that feature.
Dennis

[Eric Kettenburg]

I wouldn't change a thing.  Well maybe kick Mike to the curb hahahahahahahahaha  I think the forum runs well, and is moderated exceptionally well (even when I'm occasionally moderated for getting hot under the collar), and has run smoothly since its inception.  And just me personally, I appreciate that there aren't 80 sub boards under each category.  But I'm old fashioned and behind the times.  Frankly message boards of this type are likely behind the times anyway but I like that and don;t keep up with all the eff book, twit-ter stuff etc.

Honestly, I've been here since the beginning, or almost since the beginning, and I seem to remember it being a lot more raucous and 'in your face' years ago with some of the guys like Earl (who I really miss seeing here) than it is now.

[B.Habermehl]

I feel this is redundant due to the sheer number of Kibler kit assembly and finish jobs out there. But here’s what a customer of mine had me create from one Kibler’s Early Colonial kits. Rust blued barrel, temper blued lock, not the frizzen of course. All steel screw bolts etc temper blued.Thinned laurel mountain honey maple stain, Waterlox finish. Customer wanted the light stain color.

[rich pierce]

That lock really shines. I’ve never done a gun stained that light but it looks good. Some originals look pretty light now and I wonder what they looked like new. The Marshall gun is pretty light.

[Jakob]

Right now, no I'm not comfortable. I have a few people I wont hesitate to ask advice privately, but where I am now, it's mostly about *me* figuring out how to do things.

 One thing is to get advice and the other is to apply it and that's where I am right now; learning how to apply myself.
Any unsolicited comments/advice could disrupt that. I'll admit that I'm in over my head, but I've done that before and it's how I often learn. I will post milestones (I think) and hopefully I'll reach one of those soon.

[Tom Currie]

This is a good post Rich. I still believe most all replies here are helpful and good spirited, for the few troublesome replies I think some thick skin would help. I think some of us are slow builders and that probably doesn't lend itself well to updates as they may be very infrequent.

[Oil Derek]

Hi Rich.  Undecided!

I almost sent you a PM but thought it might have value here for perspective.  If not appropriate please delete.

If LR building is like baseball, then I’m a benchwarmer, haven’t even stepped to the plate!

I am a bit perplexed what to make of this forum.  Perhaps my comments are germane here as a potential wannabe builder.  Sure, like many here I slapped together a TC kit back in the 70’s, but that’s as far as I’ve gone.  I have toyed with the idea of trying a plank build the last few years.

Now, on to my confusion.  I posted a thread a couple days ago wanting advice on lock fitting.  I looked at the tutorial section of this forum and attempted a general forum search with little success. 

There are over 200 views of my thread yet I received only one response which I am grateful for.  Granted, the advice sought was about a production flintlock rifle.  But I would think that being taught how to approach, analyze, and then offered tangible steps in correcting the problem would be a great learning opportunity prior to ever doing a proper inlet on a plank.  The kind gent stated the obvious overview which I basically did know; and at least he responded.  I’m NOT slighting him at all.  However I did ask for specifics and got none.  It’s akin to someone saying they need specific directions because they have a flat tire and they are told …  change it.  Not overly constructive help when one has never been shown or coached in “the doing” of changing a flat to effect solving the problem. 

Perhaps I expected too much.  Perhaps I should not have made the post at all if it is beneath the membership core skill level.  Perhaps trying to analyze and correct others mistakes (production gun or not) is just silly and futile.  Perhaps understanding and learning how to fix your own rifle is just plain stupid.  Would I have received a different response if I had posted a semi ugly chunk of wood in the form of a Longrifle ready for me to start the process of inletting the lock?  If it were a production lock would I have been advised to strip the lock and start with only the plate?  Would I have been asked if I knew how to properly disassemble the lock first, and if my answer was no then directed to a tutorial to do so?

I hope this doesn’t come across as me being jilted and caustic.  I truly am not.  It is just one person’s perspective.  I check this forum multiple times a day and rather enjoy it.  But I do get the vibe why others may not want to post anything here.  Almost appears that some vague battle line has been drawn between some camps here.  Thus, I discern that everyone seems hesitant to discuss or comment on any thread.  Whether the reasons are real or imagined I don’t know, but it is disheartening.  I hope a solution and reconciliation where need can ensue.

[Bill Raby]

   There is all this talk of the privileged "in crowd" and then lowly "everyone else". I just don't see it here. Does that mean that I am one of the special people?

[rich pierce]

Oil Derek, I could not see from the picture where the contact was. Others may not have seen it either.

The general rule in inletting a lock is you continue to remove high spots in the inlet until the lock bolster contacts the bolster.

[Oil Derek]

Thanks for replying Rich, but I did not expect my lock thread issue to be addressed here.  I’m actually not offended, I was merely pointing out that when help is asked for on this forum, it is not always forthcoming.  If a new member (or established) senses indifference to their queries then they may quit posting altogether and abandon this forum, which would be a shame.  Personally, it’s becoming hard for me to know when and if I should post a topic for help.  Alas, I don’t have a remedy.

[rich pierce]

Derek, it seems like there’s one data point that you’re using to judge the ALR forum, and perhaps inferring biases that may or may not be present. I offered a what I hoped would be a helpful response, but too late, I guess. I hope you get that issue with the lock fit sorted out.

[Clear Spring Armory]

Personally, I think this is the best resource for learning about period gun work there is. I tell everyone interested in anything covered here to check it out. I even refered to guy who makes western style jewelry, Spurs, tack, etc. to the site recently to answer some of his questions about the use of bluing. I do tell them all to take things with a grain of salt. Opinions vary. And that sometimes people are bad about getting off topic. For example, I once posted about carving. I was basically asking about the way the edge of the carving should be done. And maybe it wasn't worded well and was misunderstood. But it turned into a lecture on design. I knew the design wasn't great, I was just trying for something I could execute. It was my first time and wasn't expecting a masterpiece. And all else aside, that wasn't my question and I didn't get what I was looking for. So I looked elsewhere for answers and continued as best I could. I didn't want to get into a negative exchange with anyone, they were just trying to help, so I never even commented on my own thread. But not complaining, been at craftwork/arts/trades almost all my life and learning often means engaging with other people. And that kind of stuff happens. Just something we might bear in mind is that the question should be the focus of discussion.

I hope I didn't stray too far from topic, I think you may be asking specifically about finished builds 😆

[HighUintas]

The only suggestion I have is to figure out how to make the search function a bit easier to use.

I have received a great deal of advice here and I am forever grateful.

I have been down and out for a bit and haven't been able to make progress on my first ever muzzleloader. I'll post some more sometime soon.

[flehto]

I can honestly say that  I haven't made remarks on a posted MLer unless requested to do so and then only reluctantly. Enjoy looking at the pics of other's work ....a lot of fine work being shown......Fred

[Steeltrap]

I've posted here many times. I'm not only amateur..not even of Bush League caliber. I've only built one flint pistol and one flint rifle. Plus 15+ years of a T\C Hawken re-do.

I've found this forum to be a great resource of helpful information. That doesn't mean it prevented me from making a thousand mistakes as I went. This rifle build stuff isn't as easy as it appears.

For me, my "end product" is more a working tool than a display. I wanted (and have) flintlock firearms that can take 3 weeks afield in the cold and those summer days of practice and not fail or have gaps and wobbles that prevent solid performance or create potentially dangerous situations.

That said, I still think my flinter's look good. Not great, but good.

Some have posted replies to my questions and have been very helpful. Some more critical in order for my end product to be better. Those have been accepted in the context of helpful objectivity. Others have responded in a "why are you asking such an elementary question" fashion....and I've called out those who have.

It's those who respond on the "elementary" part of the bell curve that prevent me, or IMHO anyone from showing their work. Being critical to help someone to the next level is great. Being critical to someone\comparing their work to a builder who's done this several hundred times just to point out "my work is better" is not helpful.

Trying to stay objective, as the one who ask many questions, is key to bringing me to the next level of a better build.

FWIW