Are you comfortable or reluctant to post your builds?

[scotti]

I'm still fairly new to the forum and was mostly getting a feel for things. Here's two cap guns I made last summer and the current project.

[Bob Gerard]

I don't know how many actual members are in this forum, but I can imagine a whole lot. (I think there is a member directory.) But you can always count on a select few who will, as Dave said, take an educational approach to things here and contribute mightily. This is why I sometimes submit photos of my work. Because I can anticipate constructive criticism by folks who have a real interest in giving good, grounded guidance.
There was a time when I was a baby member that I just wanted positive feedback and "Kudos" for my stuff, and felt somewhat an inadequate failure if I didn't get those strokes. But you live and learn and realize that there can always be improvements and other ways of doing things properly. ("Learning" I think it's called)
That's what I love about this forum. It's a place to share and learn and grow.
(For some, it's a chance to fling poo, but not so much here, thankfully).
I do sometimes wonder, when working on a project (gun or horn) what so-and-so might say about this, or what did so-and-so suggest for a future build?
One neat comment I received was with my showing a pic of a work in progress. I was told the lock panel was too big. I went back and continued working on the gun and also reworked the lock panel. Later, when I submitted an updated build pic, that person expressed surprise that I made the fix as suggested. I felt like a good student.
That's why I share pictures, partially by pride at what I can accomplish, and partially by seeing how I can do better on my next one.
You guys are a wonderful resource, and you have my sincere gratitude.
~Bob

[Whitewalls]

I stumbled upon this forum when I purchased a Kibler kit. With no experience I was expecting that I would need help and advice with the project. It turns out that the build was actually quite simple and the rifle turned out very nice.  My experience on this forum has been fine. I posted and received positive comments.
I enjoy looking on here mostly to see the amazing carving that some guys are capable of. I am fascinated at the level of talent because it is so far beyond my wheelhouse. 
I quickly discovered that there is a diverse mix on here. Some very talented true gun builders who can carve a hunk of wood into a stock and fabricate the components by hand and others like me who basically assemble a kit.
No matter the level of talent, we all share the same passion for these rifles. If members don't feel comfortable posting on this forum then it  will cease to exist. It's that simple.

[silky]

I'm glad you have brought this up, Rich. Here's one man's perspective, for whatever it may be worth...

Years ago, when I built model airplanes, I was a member of an online forum not so different than this one (though the average maturity level was markedly lower...). The message board had specific sub-boards for sharing in-progress and finished models, each with specific intent and rules. If memory serves me right, they were as follows:

"In-Progress Pics" -- share your build as it progresses, ask for help/advice, weigh in with constructive criticism of others' builds, etc.

"Display Case" -- simply post your finished build and others are welcome to give attaboys and encouragement; a good place to celebrate the achievement, as Taylor said. Specific to building rifles, there can be a confidence deficit as a new guy when it comes to posting, and that confidence is built largely through positive feedback, at least initially.  You could certainly PM a guy and ask him if you can share some thoughts, advice, etc, on his finished project; by virtue of going private, a newbie lacking confidence doesn't feel embarrassed when his mistakes are pointed out in front of others. Everyone responds differently. But, as Taylor also mentioned, one doesn't get better without honest, constructive feedback, hence...

"Critique Corner" -- similar to the "Display Case," but by posting your work there, you are okay with any/all constructive criticism/feedback in a public forum.

When I finished my most recent rifle, I wasn't really sure where to post it, in "Gun Building" or "Contemporary Longrifle Collecting."  I wasn't really building the gun anymore, but as an amateur I sure as $#*! wasn't going to consider it a collectible, either! Maybe a dedicated sub-board or two would help?

There's a very human element to sharing your artistic pursuits and in a perfect world everyone would take and offer criticism well... but we all know the world isn't perfect.  There's that quote about art not being the finished product but rather the feelings inspired by the journey... sometimes you just need to be able to share the feelings by posting your in-progress or finished project with other people who feel the same way.

Just food for thought!

- Tom

[Daryl]

I really like this one, scotti. To me (who knows very little about where guns came from) looks like an Ohio rifle.
I sure do like it's lines. That honey brown is a nice stock colour for it.

[scotti]

Thanks Daryl, I modeled that gun after a JS Pease rifle from St Louis that was pictured in Jim Gordon's Great Gunmakers for the Early West.

[Bill Raby]

   So far I have posted over 150 hours of video building guns. I get a lot more questions than criticism. I do what I can to give encouragement and show that this stuff is not all that hard. Showing all the mistakes is probably the most important part. There are a lot of people that want to build, but don't know very much about the basics of working with tools. I might skip over some small thing in a video because I think it is not even worth mentioning. Then get a lot of questions because what seemed obvious to me is not so obvious to others. So I have to go into detail of all the little things. If I don't I will probably hear about it.

   The biggest thing I notice is a huge amount of fear. I don't want to spend $1000 on parts and screw it up so I am just going to give up before I ever start. Great. Now failure is certain! If you want a gun, buy one. If you want to build a gun, then building the gun is the goal. If you get to enjoy hours in the workshop then you have been successful. I does not matter how the gun turns out. The money spent on gun parts and tools is part of the entertainment budget. Spend enough money to build several guns on a cruise. It lasts a week and you come home with a t-shirt and tell everyone how great it was. Building a gun is a lot cheaper, lasts longer, and you probably have something that will last for centuries when it is over. If the gun ends up looking awful, it does not matter because the goal was to enjoy 100 hours in the workshop. How much would 100 hours in the casino cost?

   The first gun is not going to be a masterpiece. You will make mistakes. It don't matter. You will learn and the next one will be better.

   Right here a lot of people say they don't want to post their builds because they are afraid of others will say. Why would you be afraid of that? Worst thing that can happen is someone you never met says something mean on a computer. You might also get some criticism that turns out to be very helpful. You are wrong if you think only the experienced guys have something to offer. There is one thing that the experienced guys will fail at with the new guys. It is impossible for them to show what it is like to build that first gun because they know what they are doing. They are not going to have the problems that a new guy will. Someone that has already build a dozen guns cannot show what it is like to build one for the first time. Posting all the details of your first build is of huge value to all of those that also want to try it for the first time. The value comes in showing others what they are likely to have trouble with and how to figure it out. If you show that you can work through all the problems that come with a first build it is going to show others that they likely will be able to get through it also.

[elk killer]

I have been here since the very beginning of this forum, learned a lot and enjoy it daily, visited a few other forums but dont bother with any but this one now, well besides Herchel Houses forum on the fake book thingy,
Lots of come and gone but really very few of the best builders rarely post their work,
This is the only exposure i can get to flintlocks because of the flintlock grave yard i live in
It is what it is but also is a good learning experience

[rich pierce]

@Bill Raby, you really hit a great point there. When I tell people how long it takes me to build a gun where I fabricate many of the parts they are stunned and perplexed as to why I would do that, when my “hourly wage” if I sell the gun is paltry. I tell them I’ve known professional musicians who pick up their instruments every day and play for nothing at home because they love playing. Shop time is time well-spent. We are happier with some builds than others, but the making of something puts me in a special zone, a happy place.

To the thought that “my work isn’t good enough”
In any field of endeavor, one’s “ranking” depends on who you’re running with. For over 20 years I raced bicycles and organized and promoted races. Local and state heroes never made it to the pro ranks, save 2, but everyone who lined up at the start and gave it their best impressed me. I knew a lot of fast riders who could have been competitive in races, but it wasn’t their thing. Long ramble, but the owner and moderators here hope members can feel this is not a race where their placing gets recorded forever. Rather, feel they are part of a community of folks with the same passion, and feel at home. A lot depends on how folks respond to a build. If asked, one can offer critique in ways that help, rather than trip the builder up. It’s also easier to communicate face to face as EK mentioned he experienced early in his gun building experience.

[bnewberry]

   So far I have posted over 150 hours of video building guns. I get a lot more questions than criticism. I do what I can to give encouragement and show that this stuff is not all that hard. Showing all the mistakes is probably the most important part. There are a lot of people that want to build, but don't know very much about the basics of working with tools. I might skip over some small thing in a video because I think it is not even worth mentioning. Then get a lot of questions because what seemed obvious to me is not so obvious to others. So I have to go into detail of all the little things. If I don't I will probably hear about it.

   The biggest thing I notice is a huge amount of fear. I don't want to spend $1000 on parts and screw it up so I am just going to give up before I ever start. Great. Now failure is certain! If you want a gun, buy one. If you want to build a gun, then building the gun is the goal. If you get to enjoy hours in the workshop then you have been successful. I does not matter how the gun turns out. The money spent on gun parts and tools is part of the entertainment budget. Spend enough money to build several guns on a cruise. It lasts a week and you come home with a t-shirt and tell everyone how great it was. Building a gun is a lot cheaper, lasts longer, and you probably have something that will last for centuries when it is over. If the gun ends up looking awful, it does not matter because the goal was to enjoy 100 hours in the workshop. How much would 100 hours in the casino cost?

   The first gun is not going to be a masterpiece. You will make mistakes. It don't matter. You will learn and the next one will be better.

   Right here a lot of people say they don't want to post their builds because they are afraid of others will say. Why would you be afraid of that? Worst thing that can happen is someone you never met says something mean on a computer. You might also get some criticism that turns out to be very helpful. You are wrong if you think only the experienced guys have something to offer. There is one thing that the experienced guys will fail at with the new guys. It is impossible for them to show what it is like to build that first gun because they know what they are doing. They are not going to have the problems that a new guy will. Someone that has already build a dozen guns cannot show what it is like to build one for the first time. Posting all the details of your first build is of huge value to all of those that also want to try it for the first time. The value comes in showing others what they are likely to have trouble with and how to figure it out. If you show that you can work through all the problems that come with a first build it is going to show others that they likely will be able to get through it also.

Mr Raby, Your videos have been most helpful to me and gave me the idea that I could build a muzzleloader. I am working my way to a full build, starting with a Petaconica stock with barrel channel routed and ramrod hole drilled. That got interrupted by a Kibler Woodsrunner kit. I am proceeding slowly in the Petaconica stock project, just having gotten the lock inletting very nearly done.

I am too new and unskilled to be able to offer insight on a build to anyone, save for showing errors! I have asked for advice and shared a completed project (Woodsrunner).

[Tim Ault]

I am in the reluctant camp . The reason being while I can can build a fully solid and fully functional rifle which I have learned these skills for many many many hours if reading posts and asking question here my skill level will never be as good as many on here due a hand dexterity fine inletting is my down fall. And Honestly it’s a just average gun . While I’m proud of it I don’t need to seek compliments or criticism I know what I can do and can’t no amount of hearing should have done this or that will cure my shortfalls .

[tooguns]

Never camp, some very talented builder love to rip apart less talented builder work. And if you stand up tp them the administrators threaten  to block you

[Old Time Hunter]

When I got into muzzleloading in the 80s , there were "cliques"  . Today we still have "cliques" in the sport as well as this site. It is part of life! I actually got involved in the sport for the same reason that I am in it today ,  I LOVE THESE OLD GUNS!  I am not a "club"  "clique" "self promoter" kind of guy. I have watched the "establishment" get behind one of the "rising stars" and push him to the "top" when other builders were doing better work  but, they were not in the "clique".  I have seen certain members on this site , get away with talking to people on here that, would get  some of their teeth loosened in a gas station parking lot! but, because he is in the "clique" he gets a pass !   I get tired of seeing the hypocrites that post pages of $#@* , bashing anyone that dares to age a gun but, as soon as one of the "clique" posts an aged gun , they can`t wait to get in line to kiss the derriere of the poster on his aged gun!   Basically I am not a "people person " and I understand that ! I am only here for the guns! I have presented my work to some of the most respected builders in the sport for many years and , I am glad to listen to their opinion!  I try to do more lurking than posting. I have picked up some great tips , trick , and methods from the contributors here. Just here for the guns!

[alacran]

I post some things if I think I accomplished a goal that I set out for myself. I am not worried about what criticism I may receive.
I really don't like to criticize any ones work on a particular thread. I believe the only time I criticized some ones work was on a PM.
There are a lot of folks here that truly have impressive talent. I am grateful to see their work.
I was thinking of maybe taking photos of my first build from a blank. I built it more than 20 years ago.
The criticism I received from our local ML Guru, was instructive and helped me improve my future builds.
Maybe show a recent build for comparison.
It will have to wait until I regain use of my left arm.

[Eric Kettenburg]

Very interesting thread.

Let's all remember it's just an internet message board?  A great source and place of socializing, but it's not the end all be all of life.

Just repeat:  "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it people like me."

Or maybe they don't.  I don't like Al Franken.  But remember - it's just the internet.

[rich pierce]

I post some things if I think I accomplished a goal that I set out for myself. I am not worried about what criticism I may receive.
I really don't like to criticize any ones work on a particular thread. I believe the only time I criticized some ones work was on a PM.
There are a lot of folks here that truly have impressive talent. I am grateful to see their work.
I was thinking of maybe taking photos of my first build from a blank. I built it more than 20 years ago.
The criticism I received from our local ML Guru, was instructive and helped me improve my future builds.
Maybe show a recent build for comparison.
It will have to wait until I regain use of my left arm.

Hoping that arm comes around. It would be fun to have a “first build from a blank” and see how things have changed since the 1970s. Nowadays I see some folks’ first build from a blank done recently and am blown away. The internet, more books, more gun making fairs, and so on have all made access to information much more accessible.

[Eric Kettenburg]

Yep.

[TDM]

Once my Clay Smith kit arrives in the next few days I will begin my 4th build. So I'm still very much a beginner. Doesn't bother me to post photos. I never claim to be an expert or to be totally HC, I do the best I can and continue to study proper techniques to improve my building skills. Now I certainly enjoy having folks compliment my work as we all do, but I won't loose much sleep over criticism. Ultimately, it's my money, my time, my taste, and my ability that determine the outcome. So I'm the only one I'm really trying to please.

[ed lundquist]

 I remember posting the first pistol I made, it was a mish mash of parts and styles, not correct in any way. I was quite proud of it. It received a scathing review from one member and I was made aware of what a poor job I had done. Another member offered that I had done what I could and that an important first step had been taken, he encouraged me to continue and I did. As I get older and can no longer do the things I could at one time, I look at what I have accomplished and am pleased with my efforts. If not for that encouragement things could have gone differently. I tore that gun down last year and and built another with the parts, I had learned from it. Oft times folks don't engage because of insecurities, you don't have to blow smoke up their ass but you don't have to kick them either. Thanks to all the good guys who share and encourage, it makes a difference.

[WKevinD]

Rich,
Great question that with some introspection I will try and answer.
I am reluctant to post my builds here but do post on other forums. I believe my reluctance is based on my personal critique of my work by comparison to the skills of the "masters" I follow here.
I have been building for decades and build an attractive functional gun but I lack quality carving and engraving skills. I have a well equipped (but messy) shop and have helped a number of people get started and will share my time with anyone wanting to work on or discuss this hobby/ addiction in person.
I am my harshest critic and a devoted student that bristles at misinformation or uninformed comments. Those comments are rare here which one of the reasons I am here every day, other forums can be filled with wrong and dangerous information.
So my rambling self examination says to me that my lack of posts is based on me being a student more than a teacher.
Kevin

[flehto]

The top pic is my 1st Lancaster and the next 2 down  are my last Lancaster.....25 yrs apart

[Ted Kramer]

I don’t post very many of my builds mostly because I am a horrible photographer and most of the guns I build are quite plain so nothing special to look at. Of the ones I have posted I appreciated it when someone pointed out how to do better on certain aspects of the rifle build.

I’ll try to get a few decent photos of my latest, a plain flint Leman and post them soon.

Ted K

[parve]

Am I reluctant to post images of my builds? I certainly haven't posted any yet, so I assume the answer to that may be yes. The reason is I'm still plodding along with my first build, and it requires stepping back about 10-20 feet and perhaps dimming the lights before any admiring can begin. I've made more than a fair share of mistakes during this build, but each one has been a learning lesson in its own way. I expect I'll be more keen on sharing progress of my second build since I hope to avoid most of the rookie errors I've made along the way with this first one:

[B.Habermehl]

I been here for a long long time. I’m guilty of posting few pictures. For many years it was my low technology skills. Now it’s usually gee I forgot to take pictures. Just recently I posted some pictures of some non PC horn work I did. I’m sure some of our highly skilled Horners cringed, and bravely resisted comment.  My current slow rate of getting work done does not help. The current project is a Killdeer rifle for a fellow in Wisconsin. He wants a slightly customized copy of the movie gun. It will be restocked from a build that another “ builder” horribly botched. It will include details of the movie gun that would probably insite harsh comments and get the thread locked. Maybe that might be fun! 😜

[oldtravler61]

  Well I've been on this site for a while. I don't show my stuff either. I did post one trade gun I finished on a different site.  Got over 500 likes and comments. One thing I learned a lot of people need glasses..
 But seriously I do have a real opinion of some of these  so claimed experts bashing people who are trying to learn gun building or asking a question about something. Like the mustard or aging . I get why people don't want to show their stuff or ask any more.
  When I first joined the ALR I asked a question about L-R  locks. The reply was sell it their junk. I was making  a scratch built gun at the time. Well for a piece of junk it has served me very well.
What I'm getting at is think before we reply. I'm as guilty as the next person. Your ego is not my problem.
   
   I think we all forget that we all started out learning. Everyone makes mistakes even the pro's. I don't mind criticism if it's projected in a good way.
  But we all got to  think before we answer. We need to remember that there's more than one way to do something. I'll take most anyone's advice. If it works fine. If not that's fine too.  Enough of my babbling.
  Now I got to get back to making my canoe gun or blanket gun...or whatever it is..