Davis Colonial Lock

[bob in the woods]

I have used the Fowler lock on 3 builds and it performed very well. I've been very happy with it, even though it's not what I would call "as refined" as the Chamber's round faced lock.  Has anyone had much experience with the Davis Colonial ?  It appears to be a rather large lock, and may be appropriate for an early rifle build I have planned .

[smart dog]

Hi Bob,
Yes, I used the lock.  Here is a rifle with it albeit modified quite a bit.





I found the flint cock to be too big.  In fact, it was hard to keep the back part of the "S" neck from hitting the stock at full cock. I swapped it out with a flint cock from a Chambers early Ketland, which fit perfectly.  Otherwise the lock has performed very well and looks good on early long rifles.

dave

[sbowman]

It's a good lock and very robust.  I'm currently building a "early rifle" similar to the Kibler colonial and using this lock. duly noted Dave's comment about the cock but not far enough along to know if I'll encounter the same problem.  I do know it is basically the same as the Davis Jaeger lock, albiet a different plate, as the internals and externals are interchangeable.  Log Cabin owns Davis now FWIW and is contact for parts.

Steve

[bob in the woods]

Thank you for the replies.  I'm looking at using this lock for an early N.E. Fowling gun.  Looking at Grinslade's book, it seemed to me that it might be appropriate.

[john bohan]

I just built a smooth bore with this lock and found it to be a poor sparker. Is this normal or did I just get one with a weak main spring? I will call Log Cabin shop about it, does anyone have any other advice. when shooting every shot is a hang fire, sometime it won't even burn the pan thanks.

[TDM]

This is not too bad mouth Davis as I did not reach out to Log Cabin yet and I fixed the problem myself. But the issue was/is the condition of the mainspring on their trade gun/colonial lock that came in my Clay Smith kit. The outside edges of the mainspring were covered in jagged grinding flash, in fact it was pretty ruff everywhere. I filed and polished it out, but very surprised that I had to do this. Has anyone else experienced such?

[john bohan]

TDM I sent mine back to the Log Cabin shop yesterday, they were very nice about everything. Just have to see what they say about it. The only thing that worries me is the clerk said one spark is all you need.

[John Cotterall]

TDM I bought a Davis Late English lock over the summer. There was what looked like welding splatter stuck on the inside bend of the frizzen spring. I very carefully chiseled that off. Also this lock has a little cam(wheel) where the frizzen spring contacts the frizzen. I had to file the frizzen part that contacted the wheel. The problem was the frizzen tripped open at the slightest touch. I am new to building flintlock guns so I didn’t know if this was what you are supposed to have to do. Should the lock come flawless? I understand that the final polishing is done by the customer ( me).

[TDM]

TDM I sent mine back to the Log Cabin shop yesterday, they were very nice about everything. Just have to see what they say about it. The only thing that worries me is the clerk said one spark is all you need.

Yes, that is a worry.

[TDM]

TDM I bought a Davis Late English lock over the summer. There was what looked like welding splatter stuck on the inside bend of the frizzen spring. I very carefully chiseled that off. Also this lock has a little cam(wheel) where the frizzen spring contacts the frizzen. I had to file the frizzen part that contacted the wheel. The problem was the frizzen tripped open at the slightest touch. I am new to building flintlock guns so I didn’t know if this was what you are supposed to have to do. Should the lock come flawless? I understand that the final polishing is done by the customer ( me).

You are correct that you shouldn’t expect the lock to arrive flawless. I’ve only handled maybe a dozen new locks, so no expert, I always expect to disassemble and deburr and polish whether it be a Chambers, Kibler, or L&R. (Especially an L&R) but I thought the condition of my mainspring was a little over the top. This may occur more often than my experience has shown.

[smart dog]

Hi,
Davis locks often have weak main and frizzen springs.  I've never seen a Davis lock spring as badly finished as what TDM shows.  It is outrageous that someone would sell a lock with a spring like that. The "colonial" lock I used worked pretty well right out of the box but I improved it a lot by strengthening the mainspring and tuning the lock. The frizzen spring was too stiff and the the surface under the toe of the frizzen so rough it felt like you were rubbing the frizzen over sandpaper when you opened it.  However, the basics of the lock were good and all those annoying features readily corrected to produce a very reliable and smooth functioning lock. These are not Chambers, Kibler, or Laubach locks and they have to be worked over to bring them up to a similar standard.

dave   

[smart dog]

Hi John Cotterall,
The Davis late English flint needs a lot of work to bring it up to the standards of its namesake.  Here is one I worked over and turned into a fine lock.





It needed a lot of work.  The frizzen (feather) spring was poorly mounted such that the toe of the frizzen touched the roller on its inside edge pushing the spring and roller out.  The mainspring was weak and needed to be opened a bit to add strength.  The frizzen is too light weight.  The battery portion should be thicker so I eventually soled it with a piece of high carbon steel to add mass.  Nonetheless, the geometry of the lock is pretty good and it turned out well.  These late English locks are short throw, meaning the arc of the cock is relatively short when fired.  That speeds ignition, however, they have to be well tuned to function. The mainspring has to be strong and the roller on the frizen spring needs to provide a lot of resistance when the frizzen is hit by the flint but after the toe rides over the apex of the roller, there should be very little resistance.  Ideally, that camming action should occur when the angle between the pan cover and pan is no more than about 30-35 degrees.

dave

[Bob Roller]

Assembly and fine fitting rotating and forged preloaded springs are the heart of these little "engines"and production must be watched closely if a good reputation is wanted.Having to remake a new lock makes no sense to me.That lock is good looking externally but appearance is  not what makes it work.Choosing materials to make the mechanisms from is critical.That comment about ONE spark is that of someone who has no idea about the item being discussed.Production expedients seemed to be the thing but quality control must be considered and there is no substitute for it.The mechanism looks like a spin off on my ideas that I used first on the Shoults Ketland and others as well.

[oldtravler61]

  After working almost 40 years in a production shop. Quality is job one if your selling a product. No such thing as...Well they can fix it when they get it....that's inexcusable.

[john bohan]

thanks Old Traveler, as they say you took the words out of my mouth, I haven't heard  anything from Davis yet but I will post when I do. 

[smart dog]

This is not too bad mouth Davis as I did not reach out to Log Cabin yet and I fixed the problem myself. But the issue was/is the condition of the mainspring on their trade gun/colonial lock that came in my Clay Smith kit. The outside edges of the mainspring were covered in jagged grinding flash, in fact it was pretty ruff everywhere. I filed and polished it out, but very surprised that I had to do this. Has anyone else experienced such?

Hi TDM,
You did a really nice job cleaning up that spring.  Well done.

dave

[john bohan]

Just got a call from the Log Cabin shop  saying there is nothing wrong with my lock and they are sending it back to me,as purchased.

[Daryl]

You are correct that you shouldn’t expect the lock to arrive flawless. I’ve only handled maybe a dozen new locks, so no expert, I always expect to disassemble and deburr and polish whether it be a Chambers, Kibler, or L&R. (Especially an L&R) but I thought the condition of my mainspring was a little over the top. This may occur more often than my experience has shown.

Some years back, I bought a Dickert L&R lock from Track. I removed the lock that was on the rifle, replaced it with the L&R lock, put a normal English Flint in the jaws of the cock and it sparked
like the frizzen was lined with a Faro rod.  I filed and sanded the lock plate and browned it, I think. That was it, no other work necessary.
It's on this rifle.



burrito smileys

[bob in the woods]

Daryl, I think the key point in your post is the statement " some years back "
A lot has changed.   

[john bohan]

Today I got my RE Davis lock back from the Log Cabin shop,they did no work and told me again that 1 spark was enough. I did check a few things per the lock articles this winter in Muzzle Blast. With a scale the frizzen spring is about 50% of the main spring weight. I did lighten it but that did not help. took 3 shots from the gun, it took a dozen pulls of the cock to fire 3 shots.  I am looking for someone to work on this lock. thanks John.

[rich pierce]

Cabin Creek.

[john bohan]

Thanks Rich I will check them out.

[Bob Roller]

There is one big difference in assembling and actually MAKING a lock mechanism.WHO is actually assembling these locks and what
are their qualifications??
Bob Roller

[john bohan]

I sent my lock to Cabin Creek today, they told me about the same thing you just said. I know one place I won't be shopping again.

[oldtravler61]

  Yesterday I talked to Lisa from the Log Cabin shop. Told her what I needed and she was very helpful. We also talked of the website not showing the replacement parts.
  She said that she has received several calls about the R.E.Davis locks and she is now well aware of the quality issues. Since Log Cabin acquired Davis it has been a challenge to get locks up to quality. It will take some time. But at least their trying...So I will let everyone know how my parts look like when I get them....