Author Topic: Rasps for gun building  (Read 2505 times)

Offline smart dog

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Rasps for gun building
« on: March 27, 2023, 03:08:39 AM »
Hi,
I had a good day finally beginning to have energy again. Was treated to a beautiful winter mountain sky this afternoon.





Some friends who are forming a 1770s British 33 Regiment of Foot Grenadier company came over to talk history, guns, and to drill a bit in my field. I had worked on some of their muskets and they were able to pick them up today.

Members of a different muzzleloading gun forum asked me a while ago to post a thread on rasps that I use to make guns. I am finally getting to it and decided to post it here as well. There are many different styles of rasps and I've used a bunch of them.  I am just going to highlight a few that I and others find extremely useful.  After bandsawing off excess wood, I do 75% of my gun shaping with rasps.  Folks have seen me at Dixon's and at the Kempton Gunmakers Fair shape the wrist and most of the lock panels of a squared stock blank in less than an hour using a couple of rasps and files.   For sure there are always many different ways to skin the same cat but rasps really work for me given how I like to work. 

First up are the standard cheap wood rasp (bottom) you can buy in a hardware store and a medium sized farrier's rasp (top).  They both work very well and remove wood fast.



 The hardware store rasps tend to dull quickly but they work. The farrier's rasp is a wood removing beast.  However, the regular rows of machine cut teeth cut deep furrows in the wood that need to be smoothed a lot.

Next up are a couple of Japanese milled rasps sold by Lee Valley.  I like these tools a lot for straight forward wood removal. They are sharp beasts and it is best to attach a handle to protect your hands. Unlike the previous rasps, they leave a pretty smooth surface behind.
 


The downside is they only cut effectively in a straight forward direction. It is difficult to use them to blend surfaces using a sideways movement or roll to the rasp.  You have to cut straight forward and that leaves the profile of the rasp in the stock. Stanley company makes the Surform line of rasps.  These are aggressive wood removers as well and leave a fairly smooth surface behind. My example here is actually my cheese grater but if you turn the blade around it is a Surform file.  These are inexpensive but they dull quickly in hardwood.
 




Now we get to rasps I use far more than anything else.  These are my Liogier cabinet maker's rasps and gunsmith rasp.






The teeth are hand cut in a relatively random pattern. Then the tool is hardened and tempered.  I like the beautiful sapphire finish.  The irregularly spaced teeth create a smoother finish behind and shed wood chips much better than machine cut teeth. These rasps cut quickly and smoothly. All can be purchased with coarseness of cut ranging from 1 to 15, with 15 being the finest. They replaced my old Nicholson #49 and #50 pattern maker's rasp after those were no longer made in America and the quality deteriorated badly. Liogier is not the only maker of these fine hand stitched rasps.  Auriel is another.

Now here is one of my aces in the hole.  The Liogier 12" gunsmith's rasp.  This is a life saver.  The long blade allows you to work on the combs and cheek pieces of your stock from the rear without whacking your knuckles against the end of the stock.  This is a huge advantage.  The narrow width is also ideal for shaping the end of the comb and the cheek piece.
 


I also am a big fan of Stew-Mac's Dragon rasps.  These Japanese made rasps have random teeth and the sharp narrow point to the blade is incredibly useful for getting into tight spots.  Mine is a fine cut and leaves a surface behind superior to a coarse file. This tool is excellent for smoothing the background around carving because of the narrow point.   








Finally, my apprentice, Maria, mentioned this week that Japanese Shinto rasps were really popular at the Canter's Cave rifle making workshop.  They come in many shapes and are very aggressive cutters.  However, I personally, have no experience with them unlike all the other rasps I've discussed.



dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline Tom Currie

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Re: Rasps for gun building
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2023, 03:28:59 AM »
Hi Dave, Thanks for this information. I am in need of some new tools so your post comes at a good time for me.

Offline Bill Raby

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Re: Rasps for gun building
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2023, 03:41:29 AM »
   The Shinto rasps are great for removing lots of wood fast, but rasps are much better for any shaping. Liogier are the best rasps that you will ever find. They are the only rasps that I use now. I keep getting more of them. It is nice that they are made to order so you can get exactly what you need. Only problem is that they are quite expensive.

Offline Spalding

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Re: Rasps for gun building
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2023, 03:44:43 AM »
Do yourself a favor and try one of those Shintos, Dave. They’re one of my go-tos for fast, clean material removal. And they don’t break the bank.

Bob

Offline TDM

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Re: Rasps for gun building
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2023, 06:40:20 AM »
I ordered a 9” Shinto. Anxious to give it a try.

Offline TDM

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Re: Rasps for gun building
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2023, 06:42:19 AM »
Hi,
I had a good day finally beginning to have energy again. Was treated to a beautiful winter mountain sky this afternoon.





Some friends who are forming a 1770s British 33 Regiment of Foot Grenadier company came over to talk history, guns, and to drill a bit in my field. I had worked on some of their muskets and they were able to pick them up today.

Members of a different muzzleloading gun forum asked me a while ago to post a thread on rasps that I use to make guns. I am finally getting to it and decided to post it here as well. There are many different styles of rasps and I've used a bunch of them.  I am just going to highlight a few that I and others find extremely useful.  After bandsawing off excess wood, I do 75% of my gun shaping with rasps.  Folks have seen me at Dixon's and at the Kempton Gunmakers Fair shape the wrist and most of the lock panels of a squared stock blank in less than an hour using a couple of rasps and files.   For sure there are always many different ways to skin the same cat but rasps really work for me given how I like to work. 

First up are the standard cheap wood rasp (bottom) you can buy in a hardware store and a medium sized farrier's rasp (top).  They both work very well and remove wood fast.



 The hardware store rasps tend to dull quickly but they work. The farrier's rasp is a wood removing beast.  However, the regular rows of machine cut teeth cut deep furrows in the wood that need to be smoothed a lot.

Next up are a couple of Japanese milled rasps sold by Lee Valley.  I like these tools a lot for straight forward wood removal. They are sharp beasts and it is best to attach a handle to protect your hands. Unlike the previous rasps, they leave a pretty smooth surface behind.
 


The downside is they only cut effectively in a straight forward direction. It is difficult to use them to blend surfaces using a sideways movement or roll to the rasp.  You have to cut straight forward and that leaves the profile of the rasp in the stock. Stanley company makes the Surform line of rasps.  These are aggressive wood removers as well and leave a fairly smooth surface behind. My example here is actually my cheese grater but if you turn the blade around it is a Surform file.  These are inexpensive but they dull quickly in hardwood.
 




Now we get to rasps I use far more than anything else.  These are my Liogier cabinet maker's rasps and gunsmith rasp.






The teeth are hand cut in a relatively random pattern. Then the tool is hardened and tempered.  I like the beautiful sapphire finish.  The irregularly spaced teeth create a smoother finish behind and shed wood chips much better than machine cut teeth. These rasps cut quickly and smoothly. All can be purchased with coarseness of cut ranging from 1 to 15, with 15 being the finest. They replaced my old Nicholson #49 and #50 pattern maker's rasp after those were no longer made in America and the quality deteriorated badly. Liogier is not the only maker of these fine hand stitched rasps.  Auriel is another.

Now here is one of my aces in the hole.  The Liogier 12" gunsmith's rasp.  This is a life saver.  The long blade allows you to work on the combs and cheek pieces of your stock from the rear without whacking your knuckles against the end of the stock.  This is a huge advantage.  The narrow width is also ideal for shaping the end of the comb and the cheek piece.
 


I also am a big fan of Stew-Mac's Dragon rasps.  These Japanese made rasps have random teeth and the sharp narrow point to the blade is incredibly useful for getting into tight spots.  Mine is a fine cut and leaves a surface behind superior to a coarse file. This tool is excellent for smoothing the background around carving because of the narrow point.   








Finally, my apprentice, Maria, mentioned this week that Japanese Shinto rasps were really popular at the Canter's Cave rifle making workshop.  They come in many shapes and are very aggressive cutters.  However, I personally, have no experience with them unlike all the other rasps I've discussed.



dave

Very nice selection/collection of rasp!!

Offline JLayne

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Re: Rasps for gun building
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2023, 02:12:56 PM »
Where would you get one of those Liogier gunsmith rasps? The closest place I can find online that appears to have them in stock is in Australia.

Thanks,
Jay

Offline smart dog

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Re: Rasps for gun building
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2023, 02:41:09 PM »
Hi,
Lee Valley seems to have some Liogier and Auriel rasps.

https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/files-and-rasps/rasps/112216-liogier-8-cabinetmakers-rasp?item=62W3184&utm_source=free_google_shopping&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=shopping_feed&gclid=CjwKCAjw_YShBhAiEiwAMomsEMWTYqYg7y0yuAbmPlk8AR65tYXf5RS21I_x2Ct13-UrXo6SD9fV2hoCgugQAvD_BwE

I recently bought another Liogier gunsmith rasp directly from Liogier in France.  Unfortunately, given the strikes and upheaval in the French workforce these days, they may take a while to get here.

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline Dwshotwell

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Re: Rasps for gun building
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2023, 03:20:48 PM »
I’ve ordered direct from Liogier as well. Even when there aren’t strikes (but when aren’t there strikes in France?), expect a few months to get your order, without a lot of communication in between. But the quality is worth the wait.

Thanks for the write - up Dave. I also love the shots of your mountains in the winter sun. I need to see more of Vermont some day.
David Shotwell

Offline sdilts

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Re: Rasps for gun building
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2023, 03:24:27 PM »
Dave,
What stitch do you like for the gunsmith rasp?

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Rasps for gun building
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2023, 03:53:46 PM »
What about a 4 1/2" angle grinder with 36 grit paper?
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline smart dog

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Re: Rasps for gun building
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2023, 04:48:24 PM »
Dave,
What stitch do you like for the gunsmith rasp?

Hi,
Mine is #7, which is fairly coarse.  My Liogier 8" cabinet rasps are #8, #11, and #12.  I shape the nose of the comb by first using shallow sweeps and gouges to cut away the bulk og the wood.  Then I go right to my gunsmiths rasp to shape and clean up the foot and front of the comb quickly.  Next I use round and half round files to clean up the rasp marks and then finally round scrapers and sometimes sandpaper for final finish.  Once the bulk of the wood is gone, the rasp makes short work of the job.

Mike, I just don't like the noise.  I am sensitive you know.

dave
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Rasps for gun building
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2023, 05:05:10 PM »
I don't like the noise either, but it got me a few more years of making guns.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline oldtravler61

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Re: Rasps for gun building
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2023, 05:26:12 PM »
  Shinto rasps and angle grinder for wood workers is quick and fast for stock shaping works for me.
  Also the Shinto rasps I can get at my Ace hardware...

Offline Craig Wilcox

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Re: Rasps for gun building
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2023, 09:37:33 PM »
Mike - shoulders and elbows wearing out?  Want me to pass on my Logier rasps in my will?  With this %&$# Agent Orange stuff, shouldn't be much longer.
Currently working on what will prob be my last, a Kibler Woodsrunner, which surely don't need any rasp work.
Craig Wilcox
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Offline Bill Raby

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Re: Rasps for gun building
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2023, 06:19:27 AM »
Liogier - https://www.hand-stitched-rasp-riffler.com/en/

They are made to order so expect a wait. Seems to be about 3 months month.

Offline Dwshotwell

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Re: Rasps for gun building
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2023, 06:24:38 AM »
Mine took five months to arrive from France, but that was at the height of the Covid shipping snafu so it may be better now. Totally worth the wait, I just don’t want anyone to be surprised.
David Shotwell

Offline TDM

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Re: Rasps for gun building
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2023, 06:29:51 AM »
I love my angle grinders for metal work but I don’t trust myself using them on a stock, I get carried away. I even put my dremel in the cabinet when I’m stock shaping to avoid the temptation.

Offline alacran

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Re: Rasps for gun building
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2023, 01:58:18 PM »
I don't like the noise either, but it got me a few more years of making guns.
Noise, I can deal with the noise. The sawdust on the other hand is intolerable.
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Rasps for gun building
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2023, 03:51:39 PM »
I don't like the noise either, but it got me a few more years of making guns.
Noise, I can deal with the noise. The sawdust on the other hand is intolerable.
I run mine outside.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Osprey

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Re: Rasps for gun building
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2023, 05:35:22 PM »
My go to is the Microplane with the 8" snap in replaceable blades, flat, round and angled.  Only problem is everyone is out of stock of the replacement blades.  I even called Microplane and they haven't made any in months and aren't sure they are going to keep making them.   :'( :'( :'(
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Offline flatsguide

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Re: Rasps for gun building
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2023, 06:48:51 AM »
I have Liogier and Shinto rasps and they are great but my old Nicholson 50 is still hard to beat. If one can get one made in the USA, NOS grab it. The liogier fine stitched rasps are very nice especially when your closing in on the finished dimensions.
Cheers Richard

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Rasps for gun building
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2023, 04:30:28 PM »
I saw the Stanley Surform mentioned here and wondered if they were still being made or extinct.I still have one of the prototypes  given to me by a Stanley representative in 1956 when I worked in a hardware store that is now long gone.I live in Huntington WVa and we used to have a number of family owned hardware stores and now there is only ONE in the East end of the city. I managed one for a lumber company in 1958 but that was for a short time and then I was done with that phase of my life.
Bob Roller