Flys, how do you hold them while filing?

[Rolf]

After launching several partially files into the phantom zone, I'd apricate to hear how you hold while filing.
I've tried pliers, superglue and soft solder.
No luck with pliers. Superglue take several hours to cure hard enough.  Soft solder works great, but is  very time consuming to use.

Best regards
Rolf

[Daryl]

I've heard of some guys gluing Caddis Flies onto a hook with CA, but never heard of holding the fly in a vice for filing.
Sorry Rolf - couldn't stop myself.

[Tim Crosby]

 I thought that said; "Flys, How Do You Hold Them While Tying"...been one of 'those" days.

    Tim 

[smylee grouch]

Would a small needle nose vice grip clamped in a vice work?

[JPK]

Drill a hole in a piece of steel and clamp both in a vice so the end to be filed is out where you can file it.

[Jim Kibler]

Leave it attached to a longer piece.  File the separation and tip last.

[Bob Roller]

Put the unfinished fly in the "V" slot in the tumbler and file it until the sear can engage the half cocked position. Move it forward and file it to the place where it will cause the sear to slide over the half cock and you're done.Check by cocking the lock to make sure it can engage the full cock.You can make a small "cap"to hold the fly in place while you're working on it.I have done this for decades and I know it works.
Bob Roller

[TDM]

All the comments about "fly tying" got me thinking. I tied flies for many years, guess I still do, but not lately. I have a couple of vises. I would imagine a fly vise would work quite well for securing a lock fly, but of course, never tried it.

[Clark Badgett]

Now I have found a potential use for that economy fly tying vise I don’t use anymore.

[Daryl]

All the comments about "fly tying" got me thinking. I tied flies for many years, guess I still do, but not lately. I have a couple of vises. I would imagine a fly vise would work quite well for securing a lock fly, but of course, never tried it.

Didn't even cross my mind, but yes, a fly-tying vice might work. The type with the lever release (cheaper models of vices) would hold more tightly than the spring clamping type.

[B.Habermehl]

Model air plane builders pin vise. Usually used in my shop to hold drill bits. Exacto brand comes to mind. BJH

[Bob Roller]

I've given a simple way to do this job and it's worked for me for decades.Additional vises and pliers have no place in this job that I can see.
Use the cutout in the tumbler and a small ring over the small shaft that goes thru the bridle to hold the fly in place and that's it.The bench vise will work to hold the job in place while the fitting is being done.
Bob Roller

[Waksupi]

Leave it attached to a longer piece.  File the separation and tip last.

This has been my method more times than I care to remember!

[thecapgunkid]

Don't lose the fly.  At  y age I am trying to shave Purgatory time not rack it up.  Being prone to Marine Corps Mouth,  that sucker is taped to the bottom center of the plastic parts box I use.  It comes out and goes in to said box by being held OVER the box with the aid of St Anthony and St Joseph.

[Bob Roller]

Are these "flies"flat with a hole drilled thru for a separate pin??? I tried that early and abandoned them for one with the pin as part of the fly.
I know what worked for my lock making.MAKING a lock,even the most bonehead basic types as seen on a lot of American guns that are revered relics now requires machinist,tool makers,blacksmith and filing skills.Springs are a separate category and using spring steel of known benefit is a must.Guessing and wondering are a waste of time and effort.The last caplock I made was copied from the Peterson Hawken shown in Bob Woodfill's book and it resides with a friend here who collects my locks and triggers.This lock was like the old lock and had no fancy mechanism,no half cock and blue temper color springs.Completely functional but nothing more.
 Bob Roller

[Scota4570]

I use a collet block.

https://www.amazon.com/5C-CB-5C-Collet-Block-Set/dp/B0186MD7L2/ref=asc_df_B0186MD7L2?tag=bngsmtphsnus-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80333185695396&hvnetw=s&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4583932713576031&psc=1

Since the fly shaft is 1/16" I use a 5C 1/16" collet.  I also use the collet block to hold tumblers.  Since I got my collet set I use it a lot.  I try not to use my lathe chucks, collets are so much better. 

You could make a holder that goes in your vice.  Take a couple pieces of square stock.  Put a business card between them.  Drill your 1/16" hole between them, through the paper.  IT will hold really tight and will not mark the work.  When milling tumblers I used these with rosin. 

[WadePatton]

I've given a simple way to do this job and it's worked for me for decades.Additional vises and pliers have no place in this job that I can see.
Use the cutout in the tumbler and a small ring over the small shaft that goes thru the bridle to hold the fly in place and that's it.The bench vise will work to hold the job in place while the fitting is being done.
Bob Roller

I've not ever, but if I do-which could happen, I'm following every bit of Bob's words as I can. Thank you Mr. Roller.

[Rolf]

Leave it attached to a longer piece.  File the separation and tip last.

That worked fine for the end with the axel and the sides of the fly, but still leaves the problem of holding the fly while shaping the tip.

Best regards
Rolf

[Rolf]

I've given a simple way to do this job and it's worked for me for decades.Additional vises and pliers have no place in this job that I can see.
Use the cutout in the tumbler and a small ring over the small shaft that goes thru the bridle to hold the fly in place and that's it.The bench vise will work to hold the job in place while the fitting is being done.
Bob Roller

My bad. I did not understand your previous instructions. I have made two brass caps for the tumbler. These work great without marring the tumbler and fly, and makes filing the tip easy.

 




Best regards
Rolf

[Bob Roller]

I've given a simple way to do this job and it's worked for me for decades.Additional vises and pliers have no place in this job that I can see.
Use the cutout in the tumbler and a small ring over the small shaft that goes thru the bridle to hold the fly in place and that's it.The bench vise will work to hold the job in place while the fitting is being done.
Bob Roller

My bad. I did not understand your previous instructions. I have made two brass caps for the tumbler. These work great without marring the tumbler and fly, and makes filing the tip easy.

 




Best regards
Rolf

Yes it DOES make this job easy.THIS is ALL that is needed.
Thank you for the pictures.
Bob Roller

[flatsguide]

Is the fly a little thinner than the depth of the ‘V’ cutout in the tumble or is the raised ‘boss’ around the axle enough clearance for the fly to work freely?
Thanks Richard

[Bob Roller]

On my locks the fly was a bit thinner than the depth of the "V"it sets in.Rolf uses e a different style of tumbler and it will give the clearance needed for free function in both directions.Some people have no idea as to why a fly may be needed or NOT.One time at Friendship I tried to explain why a lock with only ONE position,full cock did NOT NEED a "fly".To get real "serious"a fly is an intercepting CAM that pushed the sear OUT of the so called "safe"position and allows the sear to engage the "safety"or half cocked position.The reason I use quotation marks around the word "safety"in this context is that the way locks are designed this is not a positively safe position and can be defeated by a hard pull on the trigger.It WILL hold against the thrust or torque generated by the mainspring and that is IT. A look at some of the high end locks like Brazier and Stanton and some other will show the finest workmanship but still a fragile mechanism that will work fine if not abused or wrecked by a hard pull at half cock.Lynton McKenzie told me of repairing locks with broken sears and tumblers that were damaged by "inspectors"making sure the locks worked on target rifles.I remember giving him some 1144 and 0-1 for repairs.
Bob Roller

[Rolf]

Is the fly a little thinner than the depth of the ‘V’ cutout in the tumble or is the raised ‘boss’ around the axle enough clearance for the fly to work freely?
Thanks Richard

The fly is the same thickness as the depth of the V cut out. This gives ample clearance.

Best regards
Rolf

[flatsguide]

Thanks fella’s
Richard

[deepcreekdale]

Holding something small so it can be filed  is what a hand vise is designed for. All I have ever used for over 50 years. Why make everything so darn hard?