Author Topic: Lock Question (Read 1089 times)

Tilefish · « **on:** April 10, 2023, 09:02:46 PM »

First off I am not a builder so I hope the way I explain the problem makes sense. I have an SMR that was built around one of Kiblers ketland locks. It is not one of his kit's just his lock. If you open the frizzen and cock the lock to full cock. Then close the frizzen the cock will drop all the way. I have tested the lock ouside the rifle and it will not do this. So I dont think the problem is with the lock.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Chad

HSmithTX · « **Reply #1 on:** April 10, 2023, 09:11:40 PM »

I've not studied a Kibler lock but I am 99.9% sure there is no relationship mechanically between the frizzen and the cock other than the flint and that's only after the cock is released and pretty short lived.

Are you slapping the frizzen shut or carefully lowering it when this happens? If you full cock and slap/hit/thump the rifle here and there from different directions with the frizzen open does the cock fall? My guess is that you are seeing a relationship between the frizzen and the cock that is a symptom and not the actual cause? If I were to pull another theory from a lower posterior orifice I would guess that there is some interference with the sear or sear bar and the stock. Have you by chance smoked the lock or used inletting black and reinstalled looking for contact?

Tilefish · « **Reply #2 on:** April 10, 2023, 09:18:42 PM »

I smoked the lock and can’t see any where there is any wood obstruction. I am not slowly lowering the frizzen. I am just letting it snap close. Like I previously stated it will not do this out of the rifle.

Jennison · « **Reply #3 on:** April 10, 2023, 09:43:35 PM »

Try loosening the tang screw and see if it still happens.

EC121 · « **Reply #4 on:** April 10, 2023, 09:47:26 PM »

It sounds like the sear bar or sear is barely catching the fill cock notch. The jar of the frizzen closing is enough to release it. Does the lock make nice clear sounding clicks when it is cocked? If the clicks sound muffled, something is dragging the wood.

J. Talbert · « **Reply #5 on:** April 10, 2023, 09:51:42 PM »

Agree that the sear is not fully engaging the full cock notch.
Could be from interference from the triggers if not from the wood .

Jeff

Tilefish · « **Reply #6 on:** April 10, 2023, 09:54:31 PM »

Quote from: EC121 on April 10, 2023, 09:47:26 PM

It sounds like the sear bar or sear is barely catching the fill cock notch. The jar of the frizzen closing is enough to release it. Does the lock make nice clear sounding clicks when it is cocked? If the clicks sound muffled, spmething is dragging the wood.

It makes a crisp click when cocked. If I cock the lock open the frizzen and tap the stock on the ground it will not fall. Even tapping the stock with a rubber mallet will not make it fall. Only closing the frizzen.

EC121 · « **Reply #7 on:** April 10, 2023, 10:00:32 PM »

Remove the lock and see if the sear is going all the way into the full cock notch. If so. the sear bar might be resting on the bottom or side of the hole.

Tilefish · « **Reply #8 on:** April 10, 2023, 10:08:23 PM »

Quote from: EC121 on April 10, 2023, 10:00:32 PM

Remove the lock and see if the sear is going all the way into the full cock notch. If so. the sear bar might be resting on the bottom or side of the hole.

Yes the sear is going all the way into the full cock notch. when cocked the sear bar is resting on the bottom of the hole.

HSmithTX · « **Reply #9 on:** April 10, 2023, 10:12:53 PM »

The sear bar shouldn't be touching wood at any point at any time.

Tilefish · « **Reply #10 on:** April 10, 2023, 10:13:30 PM »

Quote from: EC121 on April 10, 2023, 10:00:32 PM

Remove the lock and see if the sear is going all the way into the full cock notch. If so. the sear bar might be resting on the bottom or side of the hole.

It looks like the sear bar could be binding against the set trigger. could that be the problem.

Tilefish · « **Reply #11 on:** April 10, 2023, 10:19:38 PM »

I think that is the problem. The sear bar has been slighlty bent upwards. Probably because it was making contact.

Scota4570 · « **Reply #12 on:** April 10, 2023, 10:21:31 PM »

Quote from: Tilefish on April 10, 2023, 10:13:30 PM

Quote from: EC121 on April 10, 2023, 10:00:32 PM
Remove the lock and see if the sear is going all the way into the full cock notch. If so. the sear bar might be resting on the bottom or side of the hole.

It looks like the sear bar could be binding against the set trigger. could that be the problem.

Absolutely. The sear bar must move freely. Put some spotting stuff on the sear bar and remove the offending wood or get more space between the triggers and the sear bar . Often the trigger blades are made tall. You can take some off.

Temporarily shim up the triggers and see how it works.

Put a wooden flint in the jaws for testing purposed. Never dry fire a flintlock, the cock will bend.

Added later, the sear bar should not bend, it is hard and heat treated. IF it did bend up that would make the problem better. IT is not a good solution though.

JPK · « **Reply #13 on:** April 10, 2023, 10:24:43 PM »

The sear should not touch anything at full cock. You should be able to wiggle either trigger at full cock, if not they are touching something. Address these first and you will be good.

Tilefish · « **Reply #14 on:** April 10, 2023, 10:25:46 PM »

Thank you Scota. I have a wooden flint in there. I filed a little metal off the sear bar and it no longer having a problem.

Tilefish · « **Reply #15 on:** April 10, 2023, 10:27:53 PM »

Quote from: JPK on April 10, 2023, 10:24:43 PM

The sear should not touch anything at full cock. You should be able to wiggle either trigger at full cock, if not they are touching something. Address these first and you will be good.

The main trigger has play at full cock the det trigger is tight. Should I remove some metal off the set trigger bar.

smallpatch · « **Reply #16 on:** April 10, 2023, 10:30:11 PM »

Scota4570 · « **Reply #17 on:** April 10, 2023, 10:32:11 PM »

Before you do that adjust the set trigger mainspring to limit it's push distance. There is a little screw that does that. It only take a little kick from the spring, it does not need to push for the full rotation. It is supposed to fly up based on inertia not brute spring pressure.

IF that fails, consider lowering the trigger blade.

Test by temporarily shimming the trigger plate. Do not cut based on a guess.

smylee grouch · « **Reply #18 on:** April 10, 2023, 10:47:06 PM »

Does the frizzen brush against the side of the barrel when you close it?

Tilefish · « **Reply #19 on:** April 10, 2023, 11:11:01 PM »

Thank you everyone for the help. You really know how to take someone out of there comfort zone LOL.
I ended up having to file a little metal off the set trigger blade. Now the triggers move free and the cock no longer falls when closing the frizzen. Also the lock cycle is much smoother now.

Thank you all again for the help.
Chad

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Author Topic: Lock Question (Read 1089 times)