Some truly incredible British guns coming up for auction

[Justin Urbantas]

Times like this, I wish I had a spare million dollars. Starting bids on these are mostly in the $9000-$12000 range
These are all going up for auction in Maine in about a month.
They're from the collection of the one and only Keith Neal.
He probably had the finest British gun collection I've ever read about.
Here's a few pics of what's being offered.

[Mattox Forge]

Some if them are really well published. Really amazing stuff.
Mike

[mr. no gold]

YES!!! I should say so. As usual, top workmanship with greatly understated elegance. Thank you for bringing these to our attention.
Dick

[smylee grouch]

I just don't think I could NOT LIKE those Manton's. London BEST quality in all respects. Thanks for posting these photo's.

[Pukka Bundook]

Have you a link to the auction Justin?

No, sadly won't be bidding but would love to see some of his guns again.

When I look back at the original Christies sale, some of the prices now seem quite managable!
I'd much rather have Keith Neal still owning them for some reason.

Best,
R.

[smart dog]

Hi,
Great stuff!!  I believe Neal had the largest private collection ever assembled and it included over 2,000 firearms.
According to what I've read, every one was in perfect working order and he shot them all.

dave

[Bob Roller]

Hi,
Great stuff!!  I believe Neal had the largest private collection ever assembled and it included over 2,000 firearms.
According to what I've read, every one was in perfect working order and he shot them all.

dave

If a gun CAN'T be fired that's one thing and it can be used as a lamp or mantle ornament.If I had the chance I would like to test
General Grant's target rifle now in the Smithsonian on display.I have seen only one attempt to copy it and it had a $40 lock that
did not look right on anything.
Bob Roller

[Bob Roller]

Hi,
Great stuff!!  I believe Neal had the largest private collection ever assembled and it included over 2,000 firearms.
According to what I've read, every one was in perfect working order and he shot them all.

dave

Probably Herman Dean from here in Huntington WVa had a much larger collection.He had more than 2000 long rifles ranging from superb to unrestoreable PLUS a large number of others including oddities like an Ellis rifle that used superposed loads and a sliding flintlock .
The quality the English guns did far and away surpass any long rifle but the long rifles were made under much different conditions than those of a London gun maker. One cased set of pistols from Manton or other top English maker can be considered as a collection".
Bob Roller

[Feltwad]

You will find that over the last  year here in the UK the  antique  gun trade has hit rock bottom more so the repros . There are several reason  the falling value of pound sterling is one,  there is a fear that the law may change on antiques , the expected ban on lead shot is another , Most of the  collectors have now reach a age  which keeping a collection and the lack of family members  in top condition is proven a lot of effort  .Most family members are not interested  and keen to sell , you find auction houses charge a large commission  if buying online plus the  shipping costs which most  shippers will not entertain due to the latest laws and if you find a courier the cost will be has much has £100 plus.  If  this continues  most antique weapons that do not sell  or are not exported will end up in the furnace   and mark the end of UK gun heritage
Feltwad

[Bob Roller]

@!*%! That last sentence certainly is not encouraging.I think the American Revolution showed what a threat an armed citizenry can be to a dictatorial government and as a small boy I remember seeing signs in Chicago to "Send a gun to defend a British home."and heard later that those guns were rounded up and melted down.I wonder what part of a Morris Minor ws made from the pistol my father sent over .
Bob Roller
There are car collectors that can write a check and the bank will bounce* instead of the check.Are there ANY gun collectors that can do that and save as many of these superb English guns from becoming extinct.
* Movie actor Gary Cooper's Duesenberg  sold in 2018 for $20,000,000 PLUS a $2 million auction fee.

[snapper]

I know a lot of American dealers are buy a lot of old guns in the UK and bringing them hear in the USA.

Fleener

[Bob Roller]

I know a lot of American dealers are buy a lot of old guns in the UK and bringing them hear in the USA.

Fleener

That's good and the more they bring,the better

Bob Roller

[smart dog]

Hi,
Reading Neal's Packington story, it seems there was another period between the world wars when there was little interest in British flintlock sporting guns.  Some were going to American collections if they had special provenance but the less famous guns were selling pretty cheaply.  That was how Neal got started. I think we owe Keith Neal, David Back, John George, Norman Dixon and Richard Chapman a great debt for rescuing and preserving those great British guns.

We also owe Feltwad for his restoration and preservation work of British sporting guns.  He has educated me about them, particularly makers that are not as well known and the traditions of their use in the UK.  I am less ignorant after reading his posts and I am grateful.

dave

[Keith Zimmerman]

Just like most collections...only takes money.  Beautiful guns.

[Pukka Bundook]

Off topic but Bob R,
Most guns collected were issued to the Home Guard, or dropped over France for the Resistance.
Grandfather gave two revolvers and they were supposedly dropped over France. One was his Webley Fosberry.

If melted down for automobiles, surely they would make shooting brakes out of them!?

:-)

[Feltwad]

I know a lot of American dealers are buy a lot of old guns in the UK and bringing them hear in the USA.

Fleener

Not only  American dealers but dealers  from other countries   most are shipped by sea in full containers so I am told  never to return
Feltwad

[ntqlvr1948]

I just bought a fantastic pistol from an English dealer...the shipping would have been hundreds of dollars. I waited a couple of weeks and told him i would but it if he shipped it for free, and he agreed.

[Daryl]

Was Keith Neal a Dr.? - some years back, I posted some photos for a Dr. Neal on the NE forum, it got to the point I was spending my day uploading photos to my online photo/hosting account and posting them for him on the forum. I ran out of space in the photo account & told him so - he was miffed at that. Modern stuff, though.

[Pukka Bundook]

Different bloke Daryl.

[Daryl]

Tks Richard, I thought/hoping maybe that was the case.

[Justin Urbantas]

here's a link to the auction, for anyone who has a pile of money itching to leave.
https://www.proxibid.com/Poulin-Antiques-Auctions-Inc/SESSION-2-FABULOUS-FIREARMS-MILITARIA-AUCTION/event-catalog/240332

[BradBrownBess]

Since these are in the States they will make very good money. Not as good as say 5 years ago as now the layoffs continue, stocks and bonds offer little, and global instability makes people nervous. If they were in the UK - I can attest personally its @!*% near impossible to get them to the states and when you do - the cost and time are enormous (double your hammer price plus some). I have bought at Thomas Del Mar in London - what it took to get a single 1730's era flintlock to me was about 4 months time and close to 2K in US dollars extra. I was happy at winning the gun at $1200 thinking I stole it!
I am sure the UK folks can speak more clearly on the new laws but basically what I found was 1 company that would even touch anything labelled a "gun" no matter the age of it. I asked if the lock could be taken out to make it shippable - answer was "no - the barrel is considered a firearm". I called around to many people to finally find an AMerican shotgun dealer who once a year buys fine UK made shotguns and ships in bulk. I had to hire a Customs agent to get it through customs (glad I did or I never would have managed that minefield) then had to drive to the FedEx warehouse at our airport and fill out reams of paperwork and wait while a lady searched for 45 mins to find the box.
From my understanding (again I may be wrong) but under UK law now you have to have permits to carry any kind of knife - even if you were a professional chef with a nice set in a case going to work. Correct me if I am wrong.
Germany - no problem - have had 3 guns shipped to me and through customs in less than 10 days. Italy - not a big deal either but they are SLOW SLOW. The government has to check and sign off on all antiques so expect 2 to 3 months time for arrival.

Yes I am afraid that the antique gun and sword heritage in the UK will be 100% gone in a few years. There will simply be no way to get them out of the country.