Patterns for a militia cartridge box

[rich pierce]

I’m wanting to make a cartridge box for my upcoming primitive snowshoe biathlons.
Is pine fine?
Belly box in the belt or a shoulder strap?
Curve the box if a belly box?
Might a farmer from New England cobble something together? I’ve got a couple pieces of hair-on bear hide I’m itching to use. Thoughts?  Patterns?

[bluenoser]

I used hardwood - maple or birch - for my belt-mounted F&I period belly box and it is curved.  Pine would likely be just fine (rhyme not intended ).  Interesting enough, the curvature no longer seems to match my belly .  A small hole to one side holds a vent pick.
It seems plausible to me that a farmer would not hesitate to use accoutrements from an earlier time, although one hung from a shoulder strap would seem to be the more likely of the two.
I made my box 25 or more years ago, but might still have the pattern somewhere.  Just ask and I will post pics.
Cheers

[Daryl]

Something like this, with a more period correct fastening system. Track used to sell one with US on it.
I used a piece of pine for the ctgs.
This one was for light loads for the Bess - 75gr. 3F I think.
The larger ctgs. I used in my .69 for hunting, were simply put in my parka pocket- tapered for ease of handling.

[Wmasswolf]

historically, the boxes were made from pine, combined with leather. some just had the straps and lid nailed to the box, while others used a full leather bag. Both belly boxes and shoulder mounted are historically accurate, but i prefer should straps on biathalons.

boxes could hold anywhere from 9 to 24 cartridges - I like the 15 to 18 the best. ive attached some pics of the ones I've made.

[rich pierce]

Most excellent! Thanks. Lots of possibilities.

[Pukka Bundook]

Made mine of maple Rich.
Holds 18 I think.
Only leather for the flap,   and a stud at lower front for the eye on the flap. 
Also leather screwed on the back for the waist belt. box made curved to sit against the gut better!

[rich pierce]

Made mine of maple Rich.
Holds 18 I think.
Only leather for the flap,   and a stud at lower front for the eye on the flap. 
Also leather screwed on the back for the waist belt. box made curved to sit against the gut better!

I might give that a try especially for this bear hide project!

[Daryl]

Interesting and simple too, Richard. Tks for the ideas.

[rich pierce]

I may have curved this the wrong way! Methinks there should be more rows on the inside.

[Tim Crosby]

 That looks good to me, less mass against the body, especially if it is going on a belt.

    Tim

[rich pierce]

Just out of good will, a fella gave me some pieces of hair/on bearskin, almost half a hide. I’m going to use it to honor the gift and have fun. I am a stickler for historical accuracy with my gun builds so it’s a bit out of character for me to be free with accoutrement design. Have at it.

And here’s the final product. It has many oddities.

First is the bearskin flap. Not documented. Second is that the number of holes in the outer row is greater than the under row. Third is the method of attachment of the flap. I’ve nailed a thin strip of wood atop the hide to secure the hide firmly instead of nailing it directly. I’m pretending the box maker had issues before with flaps simply nailed; pulling away. Fourth, I’ve made 2 dome-headed wood screws attached to the back of the block and my linen strap has several buttonholes to engage the buttons. This allows for changing the strap length for stature and winter versus summer clothing, as well as preference for a low or high carry. Lastly, the fastener is a stout twig nub pointing downwards. Simple and strong.

Here are pictures of the dome- headed wood screw construction from carriage bolts and the finished bag.

[Dwshotwell]

That is a really cool cartridge box, Rich. I find your notes on historical accuracy very interesting, as I sat in my deer blind for two weeks last month with my bag, very frustrated with it and reconfiguring it in my mind. The ideal I came up with was a bag with a cartridge block in a back pocket and pocket for tools etc. in the front. Since I wasn’t seeing a lot of deer I had time on my hands, so then I started wondering if there was any historical precedent for that sort of configuration but couldn’t find much that resembled what I had in mind, original, contemporary, or otherwise. But I’ve got to think generations of riflemen have done the same thing… sat and pondered the ideal configuration for their gear, and pretty much everything has probably been tried, right? My feeling is if there aren’t surviving examples it probably means they just weren’t great ideas after all and they were discarded and/or never caught on.

[rich pierce]

Thanks, David. As I understand it, cartridge boxes set up in leather “bags” often had room under the box for tools, flints snd such. Not easy access though.

[Tim Crosby]

 Really neat, well thought out and I Really like your wood screws.

   Tim

[smylee grouch]

Hi Rich, the bag looks great. Did you have to soak and press the Bear hide to " flatten " it? Neet screw idea too. 

[rich pierce]

Hi Rich, the bag looks great. Did you have to soak and press the Bear hide to " flatten " it? Neet screw idea too. 

Thanks! And thanks for the hide pieces. More projects to do before spring, for sure.
The hide piece has not been soaked but I’m thinking if I did it would probably form itself to the block nicely.

[Clark Badgett]

Thanks, David. As I understand it, cartridge boxes set up in leather “bags” often had room under the box for tools, flints snd such. Not easy access though.

It does seem the America boxes often enough had this feature.

[thecapgunkid]

Jingles Christmas are there a lot of great examples or what??!!!

Now I gotta make one because the stupid New York Laws will make me less of a felon if I transport cattriges instead of a horn...

[Tumbledown]

I'm in Maine, and as a militiaman, I'd be following Massachusetts standards. My research shows a wood block in a simple D pouch is a simple and accurate cartridge box. The block only sits in the pouch, leaving room for tools and flints, as was in period. I believe this is adequate, since if you need the tools/flints, you're out of action yet they were handy enough to always be available.

I made mine out of goat skin from Hobby Lobby, and Fiebrings black dye.





This site has a good explanation.
 http://historicalnerdery01.blogspot.com/2020/10/cummings-davis-society-event-muskets-of.html

[rich pierce]

Looks good. Can we have a peek into the open bag with the block inside?

[T.C.Albert]

Missed this post early on but militia could use a cloth shot pouch too, and load buck and ball from the muzzle. Rolled cartridges might imply standard bore sizes and armory issued ammo, which
Militia units may not have had access to? Depends on the musket you are using too I suppose.
Tim A

[Tumbledown]

Looks good. Can we have a peek into the open bag with the block inside?

Sure. I realized these pics were of my first one, which I had to scrap. I had oiled the leather, and the dye kept smudging off on my clothing.

Here is my 2nd one. The pouch is 2 pcs of leather, one 6x12, the other 14x12. They are simply sewn inside out, then turned outside in. The block is a 2x2 hardwood piece from Lowes, drilled by hand with a spade tip. I don't have a drill press, so hand drilling 19 holes took a while... I had tried to not break thru the bottom, but was unsuccessful, so a strip of scrap covers the bottom. I recycled the straps from the first pouch, which had the block tacked in. This time, I used beeswax and not oil.

[Tumbledown]

Missed this post early on but militia could use a cloth shot pouch too, and load buck and ball from the muzzle. Rolled cartridges might imply standard bore sizes and armory issued ammo, which
Militia units may not have had access to? Depends on the musket you are using too I suppose.
Tim A

Yes, a shot pouch could be used. Many did, as cartridge boxes were in short supply early on.  My reenacting group, and many others, prohibits charging with powder from a horn.