Author Topic: Soddy Daisy Newly Discovered  (Read 3444 times)

Offline Daniel Coats

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Soddy Daisy Newly Discovered
« on: April 25, 2023, 07:31:02 PM »
Found at the Knoxville show in 2023. 43 inch swamped barrel 45 caliber at the muzzle but smaller further back. Has not been refreshed. Action functions and rifle feels right and balanced at 10 pounds total. When heel and toe are on the ground the barrel stands vertical where most rifles are at an angle. Solid one piece copper front sight. Overall a wonderful example of a Soddy Daisy style rifle in hunting configuration.

Length of pull 13.5
Height of butt plate 4.37
Width of butt plate 1.450
Length of wrist 6.25
Barrel at breech 1.10
Barrel at waist.915
Barrel at muzzle.960
Wrist width 1.310
Wrist height 1.310
Drop at heel 3.50
Length of patch box 5.250
Width of patch box  1.50
















































Dan

"Ain't no nipples on a man's rifle"

Offline Spalding

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Re: Soddy Daisy Newly Discovered
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2023, 07:36:34 PM »
Thatís a dandy, Daniel. Was waiting for more pics after you teased it in the Knoxville thread.
Any back story on her?

Perhaps a bench copy in your future?

Bob

Offline Daniel Coats

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Re: Soddy Daisy Newly Discovered
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2023, 07:43:20 PM »
Bench copy of course!  ;D

That's assuming I can stop grinning long enough and set it down!
Dan

"Ain't no nipples on a man's rifle"

Offline mr. no gold

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Re: Soddy Daisy Newly Discovered
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2023, 08:07:34 PM »
Mighty fine old Soddy-Daisy gun, Dan. Good on you for finding it. Y'all folks are lucky to still have shows. We have none anymore. Is this gun signed or marked anywhere? Would be interested to hear. Thank you for letting us see it.
Dick

Offline Daniel Coats

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Re: Soddy Daisy Newly Discovered
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2023, 08:20:29 PM »
Thanks Dick no markings on the lock inside or out. Top flat on the barrel has a suspicious area it looks like there might be markings under the patina but I'm unwilling to scratch it off just to look. No markings under the barrel. Another feature I didn't mention is the lead filled nose cap.
Dan

"Ain't no nipples on a man's rifle"

Online JTR

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Re: Soddy Daisy Newly Discovered
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2023, 10:13:14 PM »
That's a fine looking rifle, and thanks for the pictures!
You're a Lucky guy for finding it!
John
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Offline oldtravler61

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Re: Soddy Daisy Newly Discovered
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2023, 10:39:24 PM »
  You forgot to mention Ole Jack Duprey standing with you... A lot of Soddy guns had that lead filled nose cap. You did good Daniel...

Offline Jacob_S_P

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Re: Soddy Daisy Newly Discovered
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2023, 10:51:05 PM »
I got the carbine version of that rifle right there!  ;D ;D

Online BOB HILL

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Re: Soddy Daisy Newly Discovered
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2023, 11:51:59 PM »
Great find, Dan.
Bob
South Carolina Lowcountry

Offline AZshot

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Re: Soddy Daisy Newly Discovered
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2023, 04:14:05 AM »
That's a nice rifle, the cheekpiece sure is iconic for this type.

Offline Sequatchie Rifle

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Re: Soddy Daisy Newly Discovered
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2023, 04:56:41 AM »
I remember seeing that rifle several year ago. According to the owner it was made in Unicoi County. I have some notes on it somewhere. One of the old timers recognized the maker from the profile. Good seeing it again. Thanks for sharing it. Itís a dandy.
"We fight not for glory, nor riches nor honors, but for freedom alone, which no good man gives up except with his life.Ē Declaration of Arbroath, 1320

Offline Rick52

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Re: Soddy Daisy Newly Discovered
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2023, 05:02:08 AM »
 What a true classic congratulations  Sir

Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: Soddy Daisy Newly Discovered
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2023, 02:44:15 PM »
If I chose one rifle to represent a classic southern rifle it would be that one. Congratulations!
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline Daniel Coats

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Re: Soddy Daisy Newly Discovered
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2023, 03:13:14 PM »
Thanks for all the comments I can't describe how pleased I am with it. I told a few guys this rifle is why I moved to Tennessee in the first place. I bought it on day 2 of a 3 day show and must have walked by it a dozen times without seeing it. When I finally noticed it in a group of southern guns I picked it up gave it a quick once over and never put it back! Some of my Soddy friends hadn't seen it either apparently it was hiding in plain sight.  8)

It seems to have nearly all of the known Soddy Daisy features and I can't imagine it being made anywhere else. I'm still open to comments and opinions however.
Dan

"Ain't no nipples on a man's rifle"

Offline MuskratMike

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Re: Soddy Daisy Newly Discovered
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2023, 04:30:01 PM »
Daniel: You done good my friend. That is definitely a Soddy that anyone would love to own. If it was mine I would be sitting in my chair every evening fondling it.
"Muskrat" Mike McGuire
Keep your eyes on the skyline, your flint sharp and powder dry.

Offline Robby

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Re: Soddy Daisy Newly Discovered
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2023, 05:09:27 PM »
With the exception of the lock panel, I like it a lot. Are those large oval panels a characteristic used by a certain gunmaker in that style? I have never seen one like that before. Other than that it has great lines through the butt to triggers.
Robby
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Offline Daniel Coats

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Re: Soddy Daisy Newly Discovered
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2023, 06:18:37 PM »
Yes the oval lock panels are a known Soddy Daisy area characteristic. Most people I know don't care for the look and I tend to minimize that feature in my builds as well.

Just one more thing that points to the authenticity and identification of this rifle. I really wish we could tie it to a specific maker and maybe we will in time. Johnny Clemments is a prime suspect and one of the only makers that used a banana shaped patchbox on a Soddy Daisy. He signed his rifles JC which I'm looking for on the top barrel flat. His lock panels look almost identical to my rifle.

There's a nice PDF that can be downloaded 1971-B23-Tennessee-Rifles called Tennessee Rifles by Robin C. Hale page 20 figure 30 and 31 have the Johnny Clemments rifle I'm referring to.






Dan

"Ain't no nipples on a man's rifle"

Offline Daniel Coats

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Re: Soddy Daisy Newly Discovered
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2023, 06:26:52 PM »
Quoting Robin C. Hale in his Tennessee Rifles article 1971

This rifle (fig. 30) from the Turner Kirklandcollection is typical of guns from the Soddy-Daisy School. The
deeply curved buttplate has a heel which is exaggerated in depth and is almost always V-shaped in cross
section. The stock is usually concave on either side of the comb. Tangs are the same width as the top flat
of the barrel, have parallel sides like a strap, and extend to but not up the face of the comb. The forearm
of the stock is generally diamond-shaped in cross-section, as opposed to the "apple-cheeked" cross section
common to the fore arms of many Tennessee guns. Note the very tight scroll of the triggerguard spur.

The left side of the buttstock (fig. 31) shows the style of cheekpiece typical of this school. Note the basic
similarity of the sideplate to that on the Jacob Gross rifle (fig. 16). Incidentally, Johnny Clements, who I
believe was the maker of this rifle, is the only member of the Soddy-Daisy school that I how of who
occasionally used the banana-shaped patchbox. His guns are signed "J.C.," and he even went so far as to
so-identify his bullet moulds. For a poor but serviceable photograph of one of Johnny Clements rifles, I
refer you to plate 66, #1 of Dillin's Kentucky Rifle.
Dan

"Ain't no nipples on a man's rifle"

Offline Hatchet-Jack

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Re: Soddy Daisy Newly Discovered
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2023, 06:50:22 PM »
Wow Dan that is a cool rifle. Congratulations! Looking forward to seeing a bench copy!

Offline Austin

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Re: Soddy Daisy Newly Discovered
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2023, 08:36:16 PM »
Cool
Eat Beef

Offline oldtravler61

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Re: Soddy Daisy Newly Discovered
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2023, 10:41:26 PM »
   Daniel if only it would have been a flintlock.... Remember ain't no nipples on a mans rifle.....just kidding....great gun you have....

Offline Daniel Coats

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Re: Soddy Daisy Newly Discovered
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2023, 11:19:33 PM »
   Daniel if only it would have been a flintlock.... Remember ain't no nipples on a mans rifle.....just kidding....great gun you have....

The words we say that come back to haunt us!  :o ;D
Dan

"Ain't no nipples on a man's rifle"

Offline HSmithTX

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Re: Soddy Daisy Newly Discovered
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2023, 12:03:02 AM »
Dan, if I may ask, what is it about this rifle and this type that pulled you in?  It's a super cool rifle, but just curious, wondering what you see and potentially (probably) what all I am not seeing due to lack of knowledge of these. 

Thanks, Howard. 

Offline Daniel Coats

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Re: Soddy Daisy Newly Discovered
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2023, 01:34:29 AM »
Dan, if I may ask, what is it about this rifle and this type that pulled you in?  It's a super cool rifle, but just curious, wondering what you see and potentially (probably) what all I am not seeing due to lack of knowledge of these. 

Thanks, Howard.

No problem Howard glad you asked. My paternal side of the family lived near the area from about 1800 thru 1850 so this might have been a rifle style they used as hunting rifles. Later the over the log target rifles were well known there and used up to about WWII and some still use them today. To me I like the uniqueness of the Soddy Daisy style and to my eye nothing says southern mountain hog rifle better.

A good deal of credit for my modern interest is owed to Bob McBride and his Black Powder TV videos. I believe Bob did much to popularize these special guns and makers like Jack Duprey have mastered the execution in recreating them. Jack is a personal friend of mine and here's a link to Bob McBride's ALR topic JACK DUPREY - SODDY DAISY & EAST TENNESSEE. I own both of these guns now and sat down with my friend Jack this last weekend going over their characteristics and how to recreate them. In that same ALR topic you will see an original flintlock Soddy Daisy owned by Jack which was the inspiration for several of his builds. Jacks rifle that I own is my inspiration for my builds which really is a living blueprint or pattern if you will. The original rifle I just acquired last weekend will also serve as a blueprint or pattern.

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=59817.0

Hope that gives you an idea.
Dan

"Ain't no nipples on a man's rifle"

Offline Cades Cove Fiddler

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Re: Soddy Daisy Newly Discovered
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2023, 01:41:06 AM »
 ;) ;).. a signed Soddy match rifle signed "J.C" probably John Clements junior,.. I and several members on this forum have examined this one, and your rifle has many same features,... you have a good'un , Dan and it was great to examine it at the show,... notice especially the lock panels and fish belly lock area,... regards,.. Cades Cove Fiddler,....




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