Author Topic: Hooked Breech  (Read 981 times)

Offline Robby

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Hooked Breech
« on: April 26, 2023, 05:02:24 PM »
I have a 16Ga., actual diameter .669, barrel with a regular breech plug installed. I want to make it into a hooked breech and have done this several times in the past, the problem is that when I removed the existing plug with a 3/4-16 thread I can see virtually no shoulder for the face of the breech plug to seal against, So if I remove the shoulders of the plug I have no idea exactly how much deeper into the breech it will go, assuming the face of the plug and the face of the breech is the only stopping point, though measurements tell me it 'should' stop at threads end. I'm thinking I could buy an existing hooked breech plug and work with that, or take my chances and start modifying the one that came with it. Anyones thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.


Robby
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We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. A. Lincoln

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Hooked Breech
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2023, 05:29:59 PM »
Many original were made like this but it’s not best practice. It will seal but threads may be exposed and corrode. Another option is to get it to a lathe and bore and tap to the next larger size, get a bolt that fits, and make your hooked breech from that.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Hooked Breech
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2023, 05:34:46 PM »
I understand your problem.  Your right, when you cut off the flanges of your plug it will rotate further.  I would probably just index the plug around to the proper location, provided you have a reasonable amount of threads on the plug. 

As far as not having a shoulder, this is common on original guns.  I would probably seal it with loctite or something similar.  Some will probably have a heart attack with this suggestion, but it should work fine.

Jim

Offline smart dog

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Re: Hooked Breech
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2023, 05:37:05 PM »
Hi Robby,
I have a 300 year old barrel with a plug just like that and it is in great shape despite a lot of use. I think I would just file a hook from the existing fitted plug bolster as long as you are sure the plug covers all the threads in the barrel.

dave 
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Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Hooked Breech
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2023, 06:27:40 PM »
Many original were made like this but it’s not best practice. It will seal but threads may be exposed and corrode. Another option is to get it to a lathe and bore and tap to the next larger size, get a bolt that fits, and make your hooked breech from that.

Have that thread bored out and then using a 13/16" drill or better yet an end mill that size and then rethread it to 7/8x14
and as Rich Pierce suggests, get a bolt to match and make the hooked breech.
Bob Roller

Offline Robby

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Re: Hooked Breech
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2023, 09:29:43 PM »
Thank you fellows!! Your input is greatly appreciated!!!
Robby
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We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. A. Lincoln

Offline davec2

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Re: Hooked Breech
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2023, 04:40:30 AM »
This is an old post of mine from a few years ago about breech plug fitting......thought it might be useful here.

Wanted to make a couple of comments about breech plug fit.....

1.  First and foremost, yes, a breech plug should be well fitted
2.  In my business (rocket engines) I routinely seal helium and hydrogen systems (MUCH more difficult to do than powder gasses) up to 10,000 psi and other types of gas systems up to 35,000 psi.  I think I am familiar with sealing high pressure, and often very hot gasses (in excess of 5500 degrees F).  Anyone who thinks that even a well fitted, straight thread plug with an excellent interference fit on a well machined shoulder can seal hot gas at 10,000 psi is....well... not well informed.  No one worth his salt in my business would design a metallic seal like that with any hope of success. 
3.  The many breech plugs that don't appear to leak hot gas during shooting don't leak for a few very specific reasons.....

       a) The pressure pulse created in the bore during firing is very short...i.e. milliseconds....about 3.6 milliseconds for a 48 inch barrel ...and the pressure is dropping the
           whole time. 
       b) The threads themselves form what is often referred to as a "labyrinth seal"...i.e. every time the gas tries to go around a corner, or through a very restricted space, it
           drops in pressure.  The same as putting a restricting orifice in a gas line to choke down the flow rate.
       c) The first bit of powder fouling that gets driven into any leak path around the breech shoulder and first couple of threads forms a packing that enhances the "labyrinth"
           effectiveness.
       d) NO flintlock breech is water or gas tight....we all purposely drill a hole in the breech area that lets fire in and gas out.  Without a toothpick, they all leak water.
       e) Every time I fire my much admired Ferguson rifle, the gas leakage around the vertical screw breech blows my hat off.... :)...no harm no foul.  It sure isn't water tight.
     
Now none of this is to say that a poorly fitted breech plug is a good idea or that one should not try ones best to fit a plug properly, but don't get too carried away with fear and superstition about the effectiveness of the seal between the plug and the bore.  The Blue Locktite option is an excellent way to enhance the seal between the plug and the female threads, prevent corrosion, and make sure that if you ever need to pull the breech plug, it will come out cleanly.  And for those who think this option is not HC or PC .....or whatever....don't pull the plug on most original rifles.  The course threads and short engagement will scare you to death.

Sorry.....this may be more like my 3 cents on this subject rather than just 2.....
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Offline Robby

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Re: Hooked Breech
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2023, 02:15:15 PM »
Yhank you Dave.


Robby
molon labe
We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. A. Lincoln

Offline Goo

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Re: Hooked Breech
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2023, 02:54:59 PM »
Is there a reason why no one has mentioned Teflon tape? Or antisieze?
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