Author Topic: 1773 Belgian Flintlock Regiment marked? or Khyber pass junk need help please  (Read 965 times)

Offline moondoc smith

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So this is my first post as I am new to Flintlock rifles. I am looking to buy my first rifle and then learn to shot it with my son. He is a History student and almost done with his associates degree Im pretty proud of him he will be the first in our family to graduate from collage. but any how I am trying to identify this rifle we are guessing revolutionary war?? Belgium? English? German? or a Khyber pass fake not sure at all Here are some pics and please all comments and suggestions are welcome!!
click on link for pics  https://photos.app.goo.gl/JwWuAVG7H3eE9oTv8

Is it worth the 900$ to buy it????










« Last Edit: May 04, 2023, 02:10:09 PM by Dennis Glazener »

Offline JV Puleo

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Austrian, perhaps the model 1809...can't tell from you photo but it looks as if it was converted to percussion at some point and has the usual clumsy reconversion...

Offline moondoc smith

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Thanks JV I would assume the converting to percussion then back again pretty much kills the collector value part also could mean not safe to shoot.............

Offline 120RIR

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Agreed on it likely being Austrian.  That kinda' sorta' looks like a classic Austrian double-headed eagle (maybe) and the buttplate marks have a distinct "Germanic" appearance.  As for a potential reconversion, I can't really say but yeah, it does look rather awkward.  I would pass on this one and look for something a little nicer for your historian's graduation present (I presume that's your intention?)  I'd suggest one of the U.S. Model 1816/22-type muskets.  The vast majority out there on the market were converted to percussion just before the Civil War.  Something halfway decent would be a bit more than $900 but not too much more.  Original flint, much more expensive.  Check out Gunbroker.com for starters.  Regardless, if you're looking to shoot anything old, be careful on your loads - don't get too enthusiastic with the powder.  Just my two bits.

Offline Niall

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This  started out as an Austrian M1854 Lorenz rifle .It was originally percussion and built in 1856 as per the date on the lock plate. These were sold off in large quantities in the 1860's and 70's . Quite a few made their way to the US in time for the ACW. This one, however, was bought by the Liege trade and converted to flintlock probably for sale to the African market. It has been bored out as well, I'd imagine.It was reproofed in Belgium as shown by the ELG mark. That's it's history, or as much as we can tell.
It's probably shootable if everything checks out and you're not over enthusiastic as already mentioned
 
« Last Edit: May 04, 2023, 06:04:48 PM by Niall »

Offline moondoc smith

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Thanks to all this has been very helpful. I will not spent my money on this rifle I have decided to chase down a Harpers Ferry Flintlock as the historic value means alot to my son :)

Offline JV Puleo

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The suggestion of a converted M1816/1822 is very good. Keep in mind that virtually all of them were in storage before the CW. They were converted in the 1850s and very nearly all of them saw active service in the first two years of the war. They are very underappreciated...but I'd stay away from flint. Most of those are reconversions and, unless you have the necessary expertise, you will find it hard to detect that. As far as shooting is concerned, the percussion version will be fine if it's in reasonably good condition. That would be true of an original flint version too but MANY of the reconversions simply had the threaded hole for the nipple welded up...maybe well done and maybe not. I'd be very wary of one...

I hadn't thought of a Belgian modification for the African trade but I think that observation is right on the money.

Offline T.C.Albert

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    • the hunting pouch
Still using similar guns over there it seems.
 


Tim A
"...where would you look up another word for thesaurus..."
Contact at : huntingpouch@gmail.com

Offline smart dog

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Hi,
All you guys have to do is look at the full set of photos and it is clear that the gun started out as an 1854 Lorenz not any American model 1816/22.  Look at the forward barrel band, the swivel arrangement, the lock plate shape AND the fact that the lock is marked with the Austro-Hungarian government stamp.  Niall has the answer to this one.

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline 120RIR

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Absolutely...we were only suggesting an 1816/22 as a better option to gift a budding historian.  I love the photo of the African gentleman priming the musket while smoking his pipe.  Somehow I don't think that would pass muster at your local range!