How to plan wrist thickness of a new rifle

[parve]

I'm starting to make plans for my second rifle and have a few questions about how to plan for web thickness, ramrod diameter, and the thickness of the forearm under the ramrod hole. My first rifle used a .32 3/4" straight octagon barrel and a 5/16" ramrod hole, so keeping the profile slim through the lower forearm was really easy, but this next rifle is using a .54 C-weight Dickert profile barrel from Rice. The breech end of this new barrel is a behemoth in comparison. I'm going to try to follow rifle #19 from Thoughts on the Kentucky Rifle in its Golden Age as much as my abilities allow, for reference here are some photos from an auction where it sold a few years ago: https://www.bidsquare.com/online-auctions/morphy/a-carved-flintlock-kentucky-rifle-signed-jacob-dickert-1616881

I've done some reading through old threads and have pieced together a plan forward, but would like to check with those much more experienced than I to make sure I'm headed down the right path. After blowing up the buttstock/wrist profile of Dickert's rifle I measured the wrist at 1-5/8" thick, and this seems reasonable when I mock up the Chamber's Siler lock plate I'm planning to use on paper with a wrist that thick. Breaking that 1-5/8" down into individual components leaves me with:
- 1-1/16" at the breech end of the barrel
- 1/8" web at the breech
- 5/16" ramrod hole
- 1/8" wood below the ramrod hole

I'm planning to start with a 7/16" ramrod blank and taper that down to fit into the 5/16" hole, making the ramrod pipes to follow the taper of the rod. I plan to use this rifle for deer hunting, so this tapered ramrod will be used some, but I plan on making a straight 7/16" rod for target shooting. The main questions I'm seeking answers for are:
1. How much wood do you typically leave below the ramrod hole? Is 1/8" enough, too much, or too little?
2. Would you recommend a 3/8" ramrod hole instead of 5/16"?

Thanks in advance

[rich pierce]

I’d recommend a 3/8” ramrod hole. 1/8” is enough below that. Your question makes me wonder if you’re asking about wrist height. Sounds like it. I generally use height and width instead of thickness, just my habit.

I’m probably too cautious but I leave the forearm uncut until after the ramrod hole is drilled. Then I sneak up on the final dimension at the breech, knowing there is a spot where the front extension of the guard covers. I sketch that area in and slip the ramrod drill in the hole backwards. So the solid rod is in the hole and the drill point sticking out. Now I drill using a 1/16” drill where that front guard extension is till I hit the ramrod drill. I now use a low tech depth gauge (easily bent tie wire) to measure the thickness of the wood under the ramrod. I then make informed adjustments to the height of the forearm in the front of the lock panel/trigger area.

Everyone does this differently. I can tell because of the wear plates!

[smylee grouch]

I 2nd the 3/8 RR for deer sized cal. guns.

[smart dog]

Hi,
You will get good advice here, however, I urge you to buy a copy of Chuck Dixon's "Art of Making the Pennsylvania Longrifle".  Many of your questions will be answered in a logical step by step process.

dave

[parve]

I’d recommend a 3/8” ramrod hole. 1/8” is enough below that. Your question makes me wonder if you’re asking about wrist height. Sounds like it. I generally use height and width instead of thickness, just my habit.

I’m probably too cautious but I leave the forearm uncut until after the ramrod hole is drilled. Then I sneak up on the final dimension at the breech, knowing there is a spot where the front extension of the guard covers. I sketch that area in and slip the ramrod drill in the hole backwards. So the solid rod is in the hole and the drill point sticking out. Now I drill using a 1/16” drill where that front guard extension is till I hit the ramrod drill. I now use a low tech depth gauge (easily bent tie wire) to measure the thickness of the wood under the ramrod. I then make informed adjustments to the height of the forearm in the front of the lock panel/trigger area.

Everyone does this differently. I can tell because of the wear plates!

Rich, you are correct, I mean the wrist height, and I think your habit is a good one that I should pick up. Your method of building sounds like how I approached my first rifle, I worked from the top down with the barrel inlet, then web + ramrod hole, then brought the bottom of the forearm up after establishing the lock panels. This way seemed the most forgiving for perhaps inletting the barrel too deep or the ramrod hole wandering.

I 2nd the 3/8 RR for deer sized cal. guns.

I'll plan for a 3/8" ramrod hole, when tapering a ramrod do you usually plan for a gradual taper or is it necked down to the ramrod hole diameter fairly quickly? The original rifle images I've been able to study show a fairly rapid expansion diameter near the muzzle, but I'm not sure if that's a characteristic of replacement ramrods or those that came with the rifle originally.

Hi,
You will get good advice here, however, I urge you to buy a copy of Chuck Dixon's "Art of Making the Pennsylvania Longrifle".  Many of your questions will be answered in a logical step by step process.

dave

I own that book and I'm glad it comes spiral bound otherwise my copy's spine might already be broken since it guided me through my first foray into building. He recommends a 3/16" web between the barrel channel and ramrod channel, but from what I've seen posted here on ALR slimming that thickness down to 1/8" can result in an extremely pleasing rifle. If he mentions the thickness of wood below the ramrod channel in his book I've missed it multiple times, but this wouldn't be the first time I've ignored good advice.

[James Wilson Everett]

Guys,

One place that there is very often too much wood left in a reproduction rifle is that area below the bottom of the lock plate and above the trigger guard.  Sometimes the remaining wood between the ramrod hole and the bottom of the stock is as much as 1/4 inch, making the gunstock look too fat.  Here is a good way to slim down this area:

1.  Drill a small hole at the very rear of the barrel channel straight down entirely through the stock.  Drill just at the interface between the barrel breech end and the breech plug.  Don't worry, the hole will be covered completely by the front extension of the trigger guard.

2.  Looking carefully in the hole, you can easily see how much wood is below the ramrod hole.  This is good to do because sometimes the ramrod hole is not exactly where we wish it to be.  (understatement for sure!)

3.  Now you know where the ramrod hole is at both ends, at the entry pipe and at the breech.

4.  Shave the wood down until you only have about 1/16 inch or so below the ramrod pipe hole.  You may be surprised as to how much can be removed.  Usually I can see the ramrod hole when I inlet the trigger guard front extension.  Look at the pictures, below.

[Tom Currie]

With that heavy breech I'd try to get the ramrod hole near the breech up as close to the barrel as possible. if you need to notch the barrel a bit for front lock screw, or taper your screw, for extra clearance that's OK . This helps keep overall height minimal . Every 1/16 you can cut down helps.

If things get really tight in there you can excavate down through the web and scrape out the RR channel a bit more then patch the web. Been there done that.

[KShatwell]

Jim:  when you get down to 1/16 under the ramrod I’m assuming you’re using a fairly shallow lift on your entry pipe tail.  Almost flat maybe?