Author Topic: Changes in Fowlers 18th -19th Century?  (Read 17437 times)

Offline Feltwad

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Re: Changes in Fowlers 18th -19th Century?
« Reply #25 on: August 21, 2008, 09:34:08 PM »

Northmn I think  you are refering to  The Modern Shotgun  by Major Sir Gerald Burrard this reference comes in three volumes.
Volume one     The Gun
Volume two      The Cartridge
Volume three    The Gun and Cartridge.

Another good reference  is The Gun by  W.W.Greener.

Feltwad

Daryl

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Re: Changes in Fowlers 18th -19th Century?
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2008, 01:12:41 AM »
I've not read Sir G. Burrard's books, however I've been through Greener's 9th about 10 times. It's a wonderful test and one everyone interested in the sport should have. Seems we're just re-learning a lot of the lessons so vividly brought to the forefront in "The Gun and It's Development".
: I wonder if I might co-erce the local library into getting Sir G's. books for me.

northmn

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Re: Changes in Fowlers 18th -19th Century?
« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2008, 04:53:20 PM »
I prefer to discuss this issue here.  G Burrard was the one referred to in the books I read.  Shotgunning the Art and Science by Bob Brister, is the standard for anyone that wants to understand shotgun basics.  Don Zutz had several articles in the Shotgunner magazine as well as two books, one being Shotguns Trends in Transitions.  and I have read articles by Tom Roster.  Brister did his pattern testing by pulling a long pattern sheet behind a car at 40 mph at 40 yards to demonstrate the shot stringing effect.  What most people do not understand is that a crossing bird is flying through a shot stream about 30 inches wide and 12-15 feet long at 40 yards.  One of the reasons steel gets cussed at is that it has a string of maybe 8 feet as does the better lead shot.  Some of the "Magnums"  may have a shot string of up to I believe 20 feet, which is why they don't perform as well as some think.  Roster found in developing his 100% 40 yard patterns that modern plastic shot wads are only good for speed reloading.  The old fiber was column can be made to pattern tighter due to better cushioning.  Zutz did more practical patterning and related it to hunting better than anyone I have read.  You would like his work Daryl.  All of this is modern testing that holds for fowlers as well as modern.  I found that the 16 gauge is what the 20 gauge 3" wants to be and if you want heavier loads in BP the bigger bore will perform better because of the principle mentioned.  Rifle ballistics are two dimensional, shotguns are three dimensional. 

DP

Daryl

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Re: Changes in Fowlers 18th -19th Century?
« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2008, 09:45:45 PM »
DP- absolutely spot-on, I've read quite a lot of Don's stuff and appreciate his experience with pelters.  As to shot columns, stringing lengths and loads, I-too have much better bird killing with lighter loads. The boys shooting trap are finding much the same and most around here now shoot light 1oz loads with more '25', '50' and '100' patches on their shooting jackets.

 Around here, we don't have turkey's yet. Seems many of the other types of animals have infiltrated this area over the past 10-15 years, so maybe the turkey's will as well.  I expect to do a turkey hunt next April in the more Southern part of the Province with my younger daughter, but would like to use my .40 flinter.

Offline T*O*F

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Re: Changes in Fowlers 18th -19th Century?
« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2008, 07:17:50 PM »
Quote
Shotgunning the Art and Science by Bob Brister, is the standard for anyone that wants to understand shotgun basics.

I can't say that's true because I haven't read his book.  However, my standard has always been The American Shotgun by Charles Askins, published 1928.  It is more relevant to the type of guns we shoot.

Dave Kanger

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-S.M. Tomlinson

northmn

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Re: Changes in Fowlers 18th -19th Century?
« Reply #30 on: September 02, 2008, 10:37:27 PM »
Personally I also like reading Don Zutz on shotguns.  I do have  books on older shotgunning techniques.  Basically Brister used the references you are talking about and expanded the research to include shot stringing.  While I do not know how fowlers were loaded, the early BP shotgunners did not tend to use real heavy loads per gauge.   10 bores were commonly loaded with 1 1/4 ounce.  Shot stringing is not the issue with those loads as with modern super mags.  A lot may have been due to endurance.  Bob Hinmen mentioned that a sportsman in the 1870s may get over 200 shots a day.  Even with lighter loads that is a lot of shooting with steel buttplates. 

DP

Daryl

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Re: Changes in Fowlers 18th -19th Century?
« Reply #31 on: September 02, 2008, 11:34:40 PM »
Friend Will only uses 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 ounces of shot in his 6 bore double. It smokes clays from 16 yards, yet has little or no choke in it's 36" tubes.  That is one gun you don't/can't stop the swing and shoot behind on pulling the trigger. It's 13 pounds weight carries it through. Perhaps that's why it's so easy to bust birds with.

northmn

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Re: Changes in Fowlers 18th -19th Century?
« Reply #32 on: September 03, 2008, 01:32:28 PM »
Sounds like one of Feltwad's shoulder guns designed for eliminating a flock with one shot.  Gentleman at Grand Forks that used to shoot an 8 gauge.  I don't remember the load, but he kind of spun a little when he hit both triggers.  He did shoot well though.

DP

Daryl

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Re: Changes in Fowlers 18th -19th Century?
« Reply #33 on: September 03, 2008, 06:08:31 PM »
The 6 bore was sent back to H&H for refurbishing and came back looking like a brand new gun, complete with fitted case.  The bores were reamed to between 6 and 5 bore and are in perfect condition.  This gun has a rear sight and very heavy breeches  with fairly thick muzzles and makes me think it is a ball and shot gun.   Too bad it's illegal to hunt moose with a shotgun here. I think a 7 bore ball might work well.