Trigger plate screw

[Red Owl]

How pc is it to have a wood screw at the back of the trigger plate?  The tang bolt that goes through the front of the trigger plate seems to do a pretty good job in holding the trigger plate to the stock.  Is the additional wood screw at the rear of the trigger plate a new development or were they originally used?

[David Veith]

I have seen it both ways, But I perfer to pin it just cleaner lines. Plus I lean toards it being just a little bight more PC with pins Just my two cents
David Veith

[Dennis Glazener]

I think it depends on the style of rifle. Most southern mountain rifles have wood screws front and rear (tang is also held by wood screws).

I have owned PA & VA rifles that used wood screws in the trigger plate.

Many of the Gillespie trigger plates have no screws in the trigger plate, they are held in place by the trigger guard itself.

Dennis

[David Veith]

For some reason I was thinking trigger guard. 
David Veith

[Red Owl]

No- not the guard, the trigger plate with the slot for the trigger.  The rifle I'm building is a generic plains rifle.  I think these rifles were strongly influenced by the southern rifle so if that had a screw at the rear of the trigger plate then I'll probably go that way.  I was automatically going to drill a hole in the plate for a rear screw and then I stopped and started wondering if such was or wasn't pc.  The Hawken type had set triggers with a long trigger plate which is far different from my single, pinned trigger. I was sort of suspecting that the later rifles were more likely to have the screw at the rear of the plate.  As long as at least some DID, then I'm ok since it is a generic representation anyhow.
   And BTW on the pinned trigger.  This is a restock project of a cheap gun- an affordable "learning experience" and boy am I having fun and hopefully learning a lot along the way.  The gun had one of the trigger plates with the upright tabs that the trigger was pinned to. By making my own trigger and having a much higher top (pin under the lock plate) the mechanical advantage vastly improved and now the trigger pull is very light- not like the set trigger but still very good and IMHO very acceptable for hunting.

[Keb]

The trigger plate is nothing more than the nut for the tang screw as you described on this gun (trigger is pinned to the wood, not plate). I would not add another screw if I didn't have to. This is a weak area in the stock anyway and adding another hole will only weaken the wood more. It is also my opinion that it is the reason many old gunmakers used pins for holding guards.
(Just my humble opinion)

[Dave B]

Red,
I have seen very few originals with single trigers that used a screw in the trigger plate. They almost allways have the tip of the tail driven into the wood or inlet with a section tucked into an under cut.

[smart dog]

Hi Red Owl,
I think we get too hung up on this artificial PC thing.  If it seems logical for you to put a wood screw in the triggerplate, it probably seemed logical to the old-time gunsmiths as well when the circumstance suggested it. I am sure you can find many rifles from many schools and regions with the triggerplate attached as you would do.

dave

[Red Owl]

On a lot of trigger plates sold these days, there is a raised post into which the tang bolt screws. It seems to me that it would be difficult to slide the plate into the under cut rear area and then rotate it into the front because the post might catch unless the mortise for the post was sort of over cut in back.  In any event were most of the original trigger plates flat without this post?
   I agree about all the wood removal- you sort of dread taking out any more wood than absolutely needed.  I've heard that some original rifles used a screw on the breech plug tang and then another screw on the forward area of the trigger plate- how common was that arrangement?

[Sean]

Dave,

You can make your own trigger plate and trigger out of hardware store mild steel really easily.  Your trigger will come out better if you pin it up high in the wood anyway.  There's a thread in the tutorial section on pounding out the triggers.  The plate is easier.  Just takes a hacksaw, drill and files.

Sean

[Don Getz]

I would do whatever fits the situation insofar as the screw in the rear of the trigger plate.  I have put them in in a lot of guns, however, lately I have just been pointing the rear and fitting it into the rear plate inlet...no screw.   I doubt that anyone will point out that you should not do it the way you did.    As for the screw into the front of the trigger guard, I
would not do it, don't think it is proper or good.   First off, you don't have a lot of wood to screw into, in addition, you might be hitting the ramrod hole, which gives you no puchase on a screw.   If you don't have a stud on that portion of the
trigger guard, install one, then pin it thru the wood.   As for the rear of the guard, you can put a screw into it or pin it, will leave that up to you..............Don

[Red Owl]

Sean, Don, et al: Well I sort of have already done a certain amount of work.  I made the trigger and pinned it high, covered by the lock plate- that really improved the trigger pull. I then made the plate and put a post in the area that the tang bolt goes through- and tapped for the tang bolt. I then inlet the plate into the stock and it fits really tight. Next was the job of drilling a hole in the back of the plate for a screw- that's when I got thinking about if such was even necessary.  I didn't realize the long rifles had a tapered tail to the trigger plate that went into an under cut and it is sort of too late now for me to change unless I make another plate with a longer tail that can be tapered.
   In any event a lot of modern kits have that second screw at the back of the trigger plate but at the same time the kit type trigger plates often have two upward tabs to which the trigger is pinned.  This then puts a certain amount of stress on the plate itself while pressing the trigger so maybe that's how the second screw business got started.  The trigger plate I have doesn't contact the trigger- it is used as a nut for the tang bolt and to cover the wood in the area. In any event I can't see the need for the second screw, everything is tight right now so I think I'll just leave well enough alone.
    On the screw in the trigger plate- I didn't describe what I was asking correctly- and I asked for future reference when I build a long rifle- the gun I'm re-stocking is a plains rifle.
   On the long rifle, I have read that the tang on the breech plug- instead of a bolt going through the stock, you could just use a shorter screw to hold the tang to the top of the stock.  Then, on the trigger plate, another short screw could be used at the location where normally the end on the tang's bolt would be. Since the trigger plate in such a case is more decorative than anything else I was wondering if it was rather thin and flat (no post) so as to remove less wood from the stock.
   So, to re-state- the tang bolt is eliminated and there is a screw on top and a screw on the bottom.
   Don- one final thought.  I am still pretty convinced that a lot of folks like myself with limited skills would be better off making more of a trade rifle.  The really fine rifles with the engraved metal and carved stocks, etc.- I'm not sure I'll ever get to that level but if I use my best efforts I think I can make a rifle that will hopefully be a pretty good copy of one of the trade rifles.

[smart dog]

Hi Red Owl,
I don't know where you read that on long rifles you should use a wood screw to hold the barrel tang and another to hold the trigger plate rather than having a tang bolt that anchors both. There certainly are some guns like that but to my knowledge the vast majority of rifles use a tang bolt that goes all the way through to the trigger plate.  The method you described would be a very poor one if you plan to remove the barrel for cleaning.

dave

[Red Owl]

It always seem to me the tang bolt all the way through was the superior method. Just wondering.

[smart dog]

Hi Red Owl,
I think colonial, Revolutionary War and Federalist period rural gunsmiths were pretty miserly with screws because they were time consuming and expensive to make. I am sure Gary and others that know far more than I could comment on that. Anyway, that is probably why they used pins where they could and screws where they had to. With respect to making the trigger plate with a sharp point on its end to dig into the wood and anchor the tail, some original guns using that method that I have seen have splintered wood where the tail eventually broke and levered up a slice of wood. Similarly, British makers often used the same technique to anchor the tang of the rear ramrod thimble.  Again a number of originals have wood splintered away where that was done.  In my opinion, I don't think it is a very sturdy method for anchoring trigger plates or ramrod thimbles. On my guns, I opt either to not use any device for the trigger plate except the tang screw (good inletting is the key) or I use a screw in the tail.

dave