New guy wants to build first rifle.

[Fox Mulder]

Hi everyone. I’ve been an active outdoorsman & shooter since I was a boy. Shot a revolutionary war musket exactly one time when a re-enactor gave a demonstration while I was shooting small bore in the boy scouts. At 25m I missed the entire target. Only other thing I remember is he said it was 73 caliber. I’ve always been curious about having a muzzle loader since.

So now I wanna build my own revolutionary era rifle. Don’t want to get close enough “to see the whites of their eyes” lol. I’ve read they are accurate out to about 100m. Its just going to a range toy. As long as its representative of the era I’ll be happy.

I’m thinking about getting the flintlock Kentucky long rifle kit from muzzle loaders.

I have almost zero wood working experience but from what I’ve read its pretty easy to fit for a newby.

I came across this site looking for info & man, ya’ll have some beautiful rifles! Looks like there is tons of good info in here.

Have a great day.

[galudwig]

If you are going the kit route and have minimum woodworking experience, you may want to check out the Colonial rifle kit produced by Jim Kibler. Assembly and finishing the Colonial is simple when compared to most other kits on the market.

[HSmithTX]

If you don't have woodworking experience and a decent tool set I think you have a couple options.  You can get a Pedersoli or CVA kit, a commodity type rifle. Kit cost is relatively inexpensive for the CVA and significantly more for the Pedersoli, rifles are decent to pretty good but they are and always will be commodity rifles. Your other option is to get a Kibler kit, Kibler Longrifles is the company.  They make very high quality kits, components on par with the best money can buy and the rifle as a result is probably the equal of a several thousand dollar custom build mechanically.  The kit cost is similar to what the parts will cost to buy the best parts on the market and build from scratch yourself.  These kits are as easy or easier to do than any other kit out there. This is all my opinion, hope it helps. 

[MuskratMike]

Buy either a Jim Kibler Colonial or Woodsrunner kit. There are several makers of fine kits but with the skills you have mentioned you can't go wrong with one of Jim's kits. They literally fall together, with minimum sanding and wood working skills needed. Watch his videos on how to finish the wood and metal.

[HighUintas]

I'll add that you might think about the possibility of wanting to build more or use the skills you'd learn for other projects.

I'm in the final stages of my first build and had very little to no wood and metal working experience. I love building things and knew I wanted to be able to continue using the skills even if I don't build more (I'll definitely build more). I acquired a good number of tools in the process I wouldn't otherwise have had, all hand tools by the way, and I'm glad I've acquired them and know how to use them.

So... If you likely don't want to continue learning and working on wood and metal projects, I'd go with a kibler because they seem to require the least number of tools to finish a very high quality rifle.

[Steeltrap]

I have never built\bought a Kibler rifle, but after building a few, one from a block of wood, and one from a pre-carve (not pre-inletted) I will say the "learning curve" of each was steep, and the outcome was OK. Far from perfect....far from plain bad.

I had countless hours in building these firearms. (As any beginner would if he's attempting to build one right)

I'm still pondering another build.....but I'd go with a Kibler kit if I do. I know "how to" get to the end working from scratch or next to scratch, and the Kibler kit takes all of the "how to" and takes out the mistakes made along the way.....and shortens the build time exponentially.

[Scota4570]

I have assembled and finished seven Kiblers. I have made about 20 other ML guns from scratch or parts sets.  I am done with parts sets and cast locks.   All to often precarve stocks are useless junk.  I often spend more time with work arounds than actual building on them.  I have used expensive stocks for firewood.  The people who make precarve stocks often do not understand.  At very least never get one with the lock inletted for you. 

If you want the highest quality rifle possible, get the Kibler.  The important metal parts are CNC.  The lock is flawless.   The fit of the parts on the CNC stock is near perfect.  The castings are the best I have worked with.  Your time will be spent on finishing.

It sounds like the Woodsrunner will fill your needs.  The Colonial is a big rifle.  The SMR is dainty, it is my daily driver.  I currently have three of them.  Whatever you choice it is a bargain. 

The Kibler is pretty easy to assemble and finish.  Some like that challenge of doing more.  What you will get is an example of how a fine long rifle is supposed to look, feel, and be made.  That knowledge can be applied to future builds.  First time  builders tend to make a lot of mistakes of archecture.  My first long rifle was to chunkie too. 

[Larry Luck]

Tomorrow is the final day of the NMLRA course at Western Kentucky University on the assembly and finishing of a Kibler rifle kit. 

In the class, there was one Southern Mountain rifle, two Woodsrunners, and three Colonial rifle kits.  The quality and fit of the components was hard to believe.  All but one of the students had his kit assembled, finished and in shootable condition by close of the class today, and one of the Woodsrunner builders had his rifle assembled before the end of the first day and used the second and third to refine the finish on the metal components and stain and finish the rifle.

The SMR is an elegant, lightweight rifle and the kit made a beautiful gun.  The Colonial is a little on the beefy size, with a 43.25" barrel.  The Woodsrunner is slightly smaller.

A challenge of building a rifle with no originals or good modern guns to handle is to get the architecture of the rifle correct.  Jim Kibler has done this for the builder of his kit.

There are a bunch of very satisfied guys in the class.  Which I recommend if you can get away for a week to Bowling Green, Kentucky.

Larry Luck

[Ed Wenger]

Sounds like you’re having a good time, Larry!  Been thinking about you boys at the Seminar, say “hey” to Wayne for me.

Fox…, have to concur with what others have said, one of Jim’s kits are a great place to start!  Best,

         Ed

[A.Merrill]

  All good advice here, but what are you wanting to do?  I have never built a Kibler kit but from what I have read its very simple to put together. If you just want a longrifle to put together and use Kibler is the way to go. If you want to learn how to build longrifles then get a kit that takes a little more thinking and learning to put together. You won't learn anything putting a Kibler kit together. And remember every Kibler rifle looks alike, yours will be nothing special. It's like buying a new Chevrolet car or truck, they maybe a different color but they all look alike. But Kibler builds a great rifle.    Al

[Steeltrap]

  All good advice here, but what are you wanting to do?  I have never built a Kibler kit but from what I have read its very simple to put together. If you just want a longrifle to put together and use Kibler is the way to go. If you want to learn how to build longrifles then get a kit that takes a little more thinking and learning to put together. You won't learn anything putting a Kibler kit together. And remember every Kibler rifle looks alike, yours will be nothing special. It's like buying a new Chevrolet car or truck, they maybe a different color but they all look alike. But Kibler builds a great rifle.    Al

I would disagree with the "all look alike" statement. While Thompson Center (starting in the 70's) cranked out thousands of "look the same" flintlock rifles buying one of Kibler's kits are far different.

You "can" simply sand the stock, polish up the metals, etc, but your choice of wood finishing is far more than "brown stain and True-oil". In addition, it's the buyers choice of browning the metals, bluing them, or applying a Patina chemical to the finish.

The Kibler kit buyer can also engrave his wood\metal, or send it to someone who does this work at a professional level.

When it's all said 'n done, it's the buyer\owner who has the say-so over the final product. There will always be a percentage that "look alike", but not all of them will be in that category. 

[mikeyfirelock]

I’d suggest getting a copy of one of the books on building a muzzleloading rifle as a first step, and reading it thoroughly.  This will give you an idea of what building a rifle  ( and also what assembling a kit ) may entail .   Also, if there is a muzzleloading club in your area, contacting them and making the acquaintance of a member(s) who build or have built guns would be beneficial.   ( you meet the most unique, helpful people this way.)
Mikeyfirelock

[oldtravler61]

   You can also check out Mike Brooks building tutorial on here, plus Bill Raby gun building on you tube. He does both kits and scratch built tutorials. Also Jim Kimber videos on assembling his kits.
  Books are fine but the video's show the work involved much clearer. JMHO

[TDM]

Still another vote for a Kibler kit of your choice. A Kibler will give you a solid baseline on how a quality flintlock should function and how parts and wood should fit. The quality of the the wood and metal finish will be up to you, but regardless of the final finish you’ll have a good shooting gun.

[Fox Mulder]

Holy smokes thank you everyone for the advice! I’m still leaning to the muzzle loaders kit for economics until I find out how much I like muzzle loading but those kibler rifles look really nice also.

I like to learn as I go and yes I’ll add tools I need along the way. I have a couple friends that are decent at wood working that can help me along.

Like I say it doesn’t need to be an exact replica, just representative of the Revolutionary era.

Have a great day!

[Bill Raby]

   You can also check out Mike Brooks building tutorial on here, plus Bill Raby gun building on you tube. He does both kits and scratch built tutorials. Also Jim Kimber videos on assembling his kits.
  Books are fine but the video's show the work involved much clearer. JMHO

It is actually on Rumble instead of You Tube. Gun building videos are "harmful to the community" so I got kicked off You Tube a couple years ago. The videos are building from a plank instead of a kit, but it gives you some idea of what you are getting into.

https://rumble.com/c/c-913677

[Eric Krewson]

I keep this on file when someone asks about the "kits".

A little more on M/L building, there are a bunch of options available;

First would be what we call an "assembly" kit like a TC, Lyman, Traditions or CVA. The kits are mostly done and take very little fitting and work to put them together. Most of the work would be applying finish to the wood and metal.

A Kibler kits are next, very precise stock shaping, parts and stock inletting, some parts drop in, some have to be fitted with a little wood removal. Except for the lock and barrel all the other parts are castings and will have to be filed and finished. All of the holes are drilled in the stock but you do have to drill through the lugs and install pins. For someone who has done a CVA or tradition s kit, this would be a good next step. You will end up with a perfectly shaped historically correct rifle.

Since I wrote the above paragraph Kibler kits have evolved to have CNC shaped metal parts that don't need a lot of metal finishing before their use.

If you want an actual period rifle or fowler but doubt your skills you can buy a gun in the white, no finish on wood or metal but already assembled.

Third would be a parts kit with a precarved stock. These have all the parts but lots of fitting, drilling, final inletting ad some stock shaping is involved. Figure some wood and metal working skills and at least a hundred hours to complete this kit. The  precarves I have bought have been flawed and took a bunch of work to correct the bad shaping errors. I have not put together a Chambers kit and only hear good stuff about them.

The best parts kits are available from Chambers, Track of the Wolf, Pecatonica and several other places with Chambers being the best.

http://www.flintlocks.com/

Here is a video on what is involved putting together a parts kit, lots of different videos covering each step.



Lastly is a scratch build I have made two of these, took me two years on the first, one year on the second and I suspect 6 months on the next. I kinda' know what I am doing now.

[rich pierce]

That was one to remember. Most would have given up. Good job.

[Dphariss]

While there have been improvements since I started most kits suck. Kibler I like. Chambers needs a little more work. Most new builders who don’t have an experienced mentor are better off with Kibler. Since the stock is almost completely shaped.  So the new builder can’t mess up the lines/shaping. Chambers is a good option as well. Both these will make a good rifle with a lock that actually WORKS. Given the things run into by friends and unfortunates I have seen at the range this is not the case with at least one other I will not name or the apparent chronic problems with at least one “lock maker’s locks used on some kits.

[oldtravler61]

   Bill Raby I forgot you switched to Rumble. But I thought you did a couple Chambers kits in the past... anyway their is a lot to be learned watching your videos...