First Attempts at Relief Carving

[TDM]

My Woodsrunner kit arrived almost 2 weeks ago, but I’ve been studying carving photos and reading The Gunsmith of Grenville County for carving ideas and technique. I also have one of Kibler’s Quaker stocks, so I’ve been making sketches on paper and on the stock. The last couple of days I’ve been giving it a try. I’ve done wood carvings on and off for years. Mostly Wood Spirits and Indians like my avatar, so luckily I have a good selection of quality chisels and gouges and I keep them sharp. But the carving I’ve done is more whimsical, not precise like relief carvings. Feel free to critique and criticize, but for the most part I’m aware of the short comings, that’s why I’m practicing. And what I’ve done so far is just experimenting, haven’t decided what I’ll try on the real deal. Tomorrow I plan to build a scribe block so I can make even stock lines. Any help is appreciated.

[Rt5403]

Looks good to me.

[Stoner creek]

Do you have any other books that you can study?  Your beaver tails look good but……….

[TDM]

Do you have any other books that you can study?  Your beaver tails look good but……….

I have Jim Kibler’s book on carving and lots of photos. I know I overly narrowed the beginning of the beaver tail visible in the photos, made the base wider on the other side. Any suggestions welcome.

[TDM]

Looks good to me.

Thanks.

[elkhorne]

TDM,
A couple of other good source referencing carving are found on Gary Brumfield’s website flintriflesmith.com and he shows both tools and has a good carving tutorial. Also if you search for David Price on ALR Gun Building Or Tutorial sections, he did a mini-tutorial on carving several years ago. Just a couple of more sources for carving study. You also do not have to spend for Quaker stocks but can get a plank of hard maple and cut it into 6-8” of it, curve the top to obtain a gentle concave surface. Use this for your carving practice and you can save them for future reference. Good luck and keep up the good work!
elkhorne

[Stoner creek]

 
 I know that you are practicing, but the tang carving and the entry pipe carving should work together, mimicking each other perhaps.
 The carving panel behind the cheek piece looks almost upside down and backwards to me. Maybe it’s just me!
 I wish you the best of luck!!! Keep asking good questions!
W

[TDM]

TDM,
A couple of other good source referencing carving are found on Gary Brumfield’s website flintriflesmith.com and he shows both tools and has a good carving tutorial. Also if you search for David Price on ALR Gun Building Or Tutorial sections, he did a mini-tutorial on carving several years ago. Just a couple of more sources for carving study. You also do not have to spend for Quaker stocks but can get a plank of hard maple and cut it into 6-8” of it, curve the top to obtain a gentle concave surface. Use this for your carving practice and you can save them for future reference. Good luck and keep up the good work!
elkhorne

Thanks! I’ll take a look at Gary’s sight.

[TDM]

 
 I know that you are practicing, but the tang carving and the entry pipe carving should work together, mimicking each other perhaps.
 The carving panel behind the cheek piece looks almost upside down and backwards to me. Maybe it’s just me!
 I wish you the best of luck!!! Keep asking good questions!
W

Yes, I agree with what your saying. This is all practice now. I won’t start the real deal until I’m more comfortable and I won’t be doing anything fancy either. The wood is too pretty to mess up.

[Chowmi]

I think your carving skills are coming along, but your design is not that good, or in keeping with that of traditional rifles. 
I mean this in the nicest way possible, but I would recommend that you do one of two things:
Finish your Kibler gun without carving, or:
Let the gun sit and learn the design/artistry of the old guns. 

Carving it like your practice piece will diminish its value, and in six months, or a year, or two years, you will see what we mean by that. Kibler’s guns are beautiful as they are. 

I know that all sounds harsh, but it is imparted with respect for you.

In the words of Jack Brooks, a master in this craft, a good design carved with only average skill will look great.  A bad design carved very well still looks bad. 

Study the old rifles, look through our library here and be critical of your designs.  it will serve you well. 
All the best,
Norm

[J. Talbert]

I think your carving skills are coming along, but your design is not that good, or in keeping with that of traditional rifles. 
I mean this in the nicest way possible, but I would recommend that you do one of two things:
Finish your Kibler gun without carving, or:
Let the gun sit and learn the design/artistry of the old guns. 

Carving it like your practice piece will diminish its value, and in six months, or a year, or two years, you will see what we mean by that. Kibler’s guns are beautiful as they are. 

I know that all sounds harsh, but it is imparted with respect for you.

In the words of Jack Brooks, a master in this craft, a good design carved with only average skill will look great.  A bad design carved very well still looks bad. 

Study the old rifles, look through our library here and be critical of your designs.  it will serve you well. 
All the best,
Norm

Agree, start to finish…
Jeff

[TDM]

I think your carving skills are coming along, but your design is not that good, or in keeping with that of traditional rifles. 
I mean this in the nicest way possible, but I would recommend that you do one of two things:
Finish your Kibler gun without carving, or:
Let the gun sit and learn the design/artistry of the old guns. 

Carving it like your practice piece will diminish its value, and in six months, or a year, or two years, you will see what we mean by that. Kibler’s guns are beautiful as they are. 

I know that all sounds harsh, but it is imparted with respect for you.

In the words of Jack Brooks, a master in this craft, a good design carved with only average skill will look great.  A bad design carved very well still looks bad. 

Study the old rifles, look through our library here and be critical of your designs.  it will serve you well. 
All the best,
Norm

I appreciate your comments. At my age I know I don’t have the time left or energy to master this techniques. But I’m having a good time trying. And as I’ve already said, I will not be experimenting like this on my Woodsrunner. I’m in no big rush, so I’ll keep trying on other wood.

[elkhorne]

TDM,
Don’t sell yourself short just because you are “older”! Hey most of us are “older” and that just gives most of us more time to practice. Just like ChowMi said, don’t carve a good rifle until you are satisfied with your design. Shucks, work on your designs and post them on here, experienced members will help you resolve the errors until you have a HC and pleasing carving design. Then practice it until you are comfortable with your outcome and post it on here again for critiques of your carved design. Once modified, then you will be ready to actually carve a rifle and be proud of your accomplishment. Good luck!

[TommyG]

IMO in would be a shame if you didn't carve your rifle.  You have the carving skills obviously, just need to tweak your designs a bit as others have mentioned.  Sometimes it takes me days until I'm satisfied with a design, even though it is nothing new and was used over 200 yrs ago, still it takes a bit to get the proportions and positioning of all the elements correct.  Take pics of your designs and review them.  Pictures of your designs when zoomed in on can point out many things that need to be corrected.  Keep up the good work, what you have carved I think looks great.

[rich pierce]

Advice above is spot on. I will add a couple specifics. Try to erase whatever habits and styles you know from other non-longrifle carving from your brain. The carving on longrifles is different. It is also usually very shallow. Whatever carving design you choose for behind the cheekpiece, try using actual ellipse templates from an art supply store to prevent “elbows” if you have trouble seeing kinks in your design. These templates with plastic cutouts of different sizes can be used to smooth your curves.

I would go for trying a near perfect copy of an original gun’s carving design, and keep the entry thimble snd tang carving having the same theme as stated above.

[Mike Brooks]

Buy a few of the KRA dvds and study the carving. They are and always will be a great help to me.

[Haulroad]

This is your first try? Don't beat yourself up....looks like you are coming along nicely.

[Jim Kibler]

Carving isn't easy and you've done good with execution to start.  As others have said, study original work. 

This is something that we see really often.  In fact, I think it's one of the biggest things newcomers overlook.  Not sure why, but it doesn't seem like something most like to do.

So, as others have said, get some books or CD's and spend some time with them.  At first, I think it's best to just copy carving.  It takes quite a bit of time before most are able to design carving themselves.

[TDM]

Thanks to you all for your comments and suggestions. I’ll keep plugging along and look for the DVDs Mike suggested.

[TDM]

Buy a few of the KRA dvds and study the carving. They are and always will be a great help to me.

Mike, where’s the best source for those videos?

[ScottH]

https://kentuckyriflefoundation.org/

try this link.

[TDM]

https://kentuckyriflefoundation.org/

try this link.

Thank you Scott!

[parve]

The KRA disc I have for Bucks county rifles has phenomenally high resolution photos. At 100% scale a ~5” side plate fills the entire screen of my monitor which is 21” across. Books are great but sometimes it’s hard to make out minute details due to the size constraints, whoever’s idea it was to start digitizing originals and making those files available has my thanks.

[TDM]

The KRA disc I have for Bucks county rifles has phenomenally high resolution photos. At 100% scale a ~5” side plate fills the entire screen of my monitor which is 21” across. Books are great but sometimes it’s hard to make out minute details due to the size constraints, whoever’s idea it was to start digitizing originals and making those files available has my thanks.

Great! I’ve been looking over their selection of photos. Will definitely order some. Thanks!

[smylee grouch]

Unless you have super sharp tools I always had more luck on softer wood with a stab in approach to the job. But just about every one has their own preferences.