Has anyone tried to use cerro cast alloy for casting muzzlecaps?

[Rolf]

When compared to tin, cerro cast alloy seems to be a better option than pure tin.
http://www.bendalloy.co.uk/
Brinell hardness: cast alloy =22 ,   tin= 3.9
Melting range : cast alloy = 138 to 170 celsius ,   tin = 232 celsius .

Has anyone tried to use it?

Best regards

Rolfkt

[B.Habermehl]

I do not know how much metal prices vary between Europe and the U.S. But here any bismuth alloy is rather expensive.  Tin based alloys are  less expensive and easier to get. One highly suitable matieral is plumbing solder. 95 precent tin and 5 percent antimony. I have used it to pour nosecaps and have had no problens. I would think you could get the solder locally at your equivelent of our hardware stores.  BJH

[JTR]

Rolf,
I've used cerro cast for several non-gun projects, and once, for part of a rifling guide. The stuff is easy to use, and doesn't require much heat to melt.
Google McMaster-Carr and search for cerro cast. They have several different alloys and info on each.
John

[davec2]

Rolfkt,

I have never made a poured nose cap, but I use the Cerro alloys all the time for various purposes around the shop, often to cast a duplicate of a gun barrel chamber for inspection purposes.  There are Cerro alloys that melt as low as 117 degrees F.  I use many of the various alloys primarily to bend delicate tubing and to make holding fixtures for oddly shaped parts that I need to hold in the lathe or mill vise.  I don't see any reason that the Cerro alloys would not be as good as pewter or lead for cast muzzle caps, knife handle decorations, etc.  In particular, I use several of the alloys that melt at less than the boiling point of water.  I usually melt them in a small drinking glass or baby food jar set in a pan of water on the stove and brought to a boil.  These alloys also either expand or contract or stay exactly the same and change with time after solidification.  This is a useful characteristic for many applications.  The following is a little information I copied about them from one of the technical bulletins available on line.

http://www.alchemycastings.com/lead-products/fusible.htm

*********************************************************************************************
The chief component of Fusible Alloys is Bismuth, a heavy, coarse crystalline metal that expands when it solidifies. Water and Antimony also expand on freezing, but Bismuth expands much more than the former, namely 3.3% of its volume. When Bismuth is alloyed with other metals, such as Lead, Tin, and Cadmium, this expansion is modified according to the relative percentages of Bismuth and other components present. As a general rule, Bismuth alloys of approximately 50 percent Bismuth exhibit little change of volume during solidification. Alloys containing more than this tend to expand during solidification and those containing less tend to shrink during solidification.

After solidification, alloys containing both Bismuth and Lead in optimum proportions grow in the solid state many hours afterwards. Bismuth alloys that do not contain Lead expand during solidification, with negligible shrinkage while cooling to room temperature.
Most molten metals when solidified in moulds shrink and pull away from moulds, failing to reproduce fine mould detail. Because Fusible Alloys expand and push into mould detail when they solidify, they are excellent for duplication and reproduction processes. This characteristic of expansion and/or non-shrinkage, combined with low melting temperature and ease of handling, are the major reasons for their extensive use. A number of eutectic* and non-eutectic alloys have been standardized.

* The word "EUTECTIC" describes an alloy, which, like pure metals, has a single melting point. This melting point is usually lower than that of any of the constituent metals. Thus pure Tin melts at 450 °F and pure Bismuth at 520 °F but combined in proportion 42% Tin and 58% Bismuth, they form a Eutectic which melts at 281 °F.

[Dphariss]

When compared to tin, cerro cast alloy seems to be a better option than pure tin.
http://www.bendalloy.co.uk/
Brinell hardness: cast alloy =22 ,   tin= 3.9
Melting range : cast alloy = 138 to 170 celsius ,   tin = 232 celsius .

Has anyone tried to use it?

Best regards

Rolfkt

It won't be the right color.
Most lead free solders for copper water pipe are simply a lead free pewter. Tin/copper/silver.
I use Silvabrite 100
http://www.silvaloy.com/silvabrite100.php.
It requires more care than using 50-50 but it looks better too.
Stir with a scrap of wood to make sure the alloy is not too hot. It should scorch pine but not burn it black immediately. The barrel will work as a heat sink and needs to be heated to prevent it cooling the melt too fast.
Dan

[Acer Saccharum]

I would think the Cerro would be brittle, if it's the same stuff as the chamber casting kit from Brownell's.

[Roger B]

My first "custom" rifle has a cerro nose cap which has looked fine for 30 years. 
Roger B.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

My first "custom" rifle has a cerro nose cap which has looked fine for 30 years. 
Roger B.

I guess that says something!      How is the color?

[Dphariss]

I suppose it would be possible to mix aluminum powder with Acra-glas and make a cap from that.

I have used cerro safe for chamber casts. I won't be using it for forends.
If the rifle gets whacked very hard on the cerrosafe its going to break.
Dan

[JTR]

Geeze, I don't know; it's too brittle, its the wrong color, it'll break if hit hard?

I have most of an old ingot of the stuff left. The temp range is cast into it, and is 281-338 F., so thought I'd do a 'test' while my 2nd cup of coffee brews.

I compared it to an old gun I have with a pewter cap, and it's about the same silver color,,,,although maybe a bit more silvery than the old pewter.

Then I held it about 6 feet up, and dropped it on the garage concrete floor. No problem. Then I tossed it up to the 8 foot high ceiling and let it fall,,, again no problem, just a small dent on one corner.
Then, since the stuff wasn't cooperating, probably because it larger than a muzzle cap at 2" wide, 4" long and about 1/2" thick, I threw it  at the garage floor with enough gusto that when it hit, it bounced about 10 or 15 feet out into the driveway. Didn't break, didn't crack,, but it did have a larger dent.

Not tough enough for a nose cap? I don't know,, but I do know that if I'd thrown a rifle that hard at the cement floor it surely would have broke, or at least been severly damaged.

Coffee's finished, and so is the 'test'. 

John   

[davec2]

John,

Great Test !!!!!  Thanks for taking the time.

Dave C

[Rolf]

Thanks for the test John, seems cerro alloy would be worth a try.
Did some more checking. Sent emails to Alchemy castings inc, McMaster-Carr and Bend alloy. All recommend Low 281-338(= cerrocast) for"pewter"casting.
This alloy is 40% bismuth + 60%tin. It looks like pewter, is not brittle, and is 5 times harder than pewter. NB! it should cooled slowly to avoid getting a coarse crystalline structure. Haven't gotten a explanation what they mean by slowly.

Bendalloy(a UK firm) wants $ 58 pr. pound
Alchemy castings inc want $30 pr.pound, but minimum order is 10 pounds.
McMaster-carr  has ingots that weigh 1.25 -1.5 pounds. Price pr. Igor $40.70

So, McMaster sound like the place to buy.

I checked up silverbrite 100 alloy. It's 95.6% tin + 4%copper + 0.4%silver, which  means its almost identical to britannica metall. It's used alot for casting metal part for scale  boat models. Does anyone know it's brinell hardness?
What does it cost?

Best regards

Rolfkt

[T*O*F]

Rolf
Just to offer an alternate view......why not just find some old pewter plates or mugs at a yard sale or resale shop and melt them down for recasting.  Do you even have "yard sales" there?  Anyway, this is usually a source for the real stuff.....as the birdy says, "CHEEP."

[Rolf]

Tof, pewter is soft, and I would like to use a harder alloy for the muzzelcaps. More ding and scratch resistant. Cerro alloys have the added attraction of a low melting point, with less danger of scorching the stock.

Best regards

Rolfkt

[Benedict]

Tof, pewter is soft, and I would like to use a harder alloy for the muzzelcaps. More ding and scratch resistant. Cerro alloys have the added attraction of a low melting point, with less danger of scorching the stock.

Best regards

Rolfkt

That may be true but pewter IS the traditional metal.

Bruce

[Daryl]

Geeze, I don't know; it's too brittle, its the wrong color, it'll break if hit hard?

I have most of an old ingot of the stuff left. The temp range is cast into it, and is 281-338 F., so thought I'd do a 'test' while my 2nd cup of coffee brews.I compared it to an old gun I have with a pewter cap, and it's about the same silver color,,,,although maybe a bit more silvery than the old pewter.

 
John   

Perhaps the material you have, John, due to it's more than double melting temperature of Dan's CeroSafe, has something to do with it's strength?  Cerosafe, available at Brownel's, Track, etc, has a melting point of somethign like 135F- which can be exceeded by 20 degrees in a car on a hot summer day.  Oops where'd my nose cap go?

[Old Ford2]

Why would you not use wheel weights?
Tough, hard, cheap, easy to get, easy to melt, what more can I say?
Old Ford

[Dphariss]

Why would you not use wheel weights?
Tough, hard, cheap, easy to get, easy to melt, what more can I say?
Old Ford

Relatively ugly color, corrodes too fast and toxic dust when you sand it.

Dan