New product announcement tomorrow

[Jim Kibler]

A preview of a new product we'll begin taking orders for tomorrow.  More complete descriptions to come...

[rich pierce]

I’ve got it figured out. 

[TDM]

I just put all my chisels away. I’ll be on the phone to Ohio tomorrow.

[Mike Brooks]

Nifty. Now I can quit teaching carving.

[TDM]

Nifty. Now I can quit teaching carving.

Mike, I’m not really giving up yet. But I still haven’t received the DVD and CD’s I ordered, guess everyone was at Friendship but me.

[Preacher Dave]

A continuation of innovation and use of technology applied towards the "old" firearms. Many of us were wondering when this would occur and were anticipating that it would come out of Hanover, Ohio. Looking forward to seeing the actual information tomorrow. Good job, Jim Kibler!
 

[Jim Kibler]

Nifty. Now I can quit teaching carving.

I remember a few years ago, you made some prediction about us carving stocks.  At the time, I didn't think we would be doing it.  I'm going to have to get with you so I can figure out what we should expect here in the future!

[t.caster]

Is that carving by CNC??? It's not HC, but @!*% sure is pretty!

[Jdbeck]

As long as I don’t see a CNC copy of the Original Masters work I will not complain.

 Your kits offer an incredible opportunity to persevere the culture… hopefully CNC rifles do not push out the traditional builders in the future.

[Jim Kibler]

Actually I’ve been considering making a Beck kit complete with carving.  Whatcha think!

[Jdbeck]

You already know my opinion. You’ll do as you please chasing the dollar. I’d ask you to honor the traditions and make your own rifles😏

[smylee grouch]

How many different carving patterns will be available?

[Jim Kibler]

Is that carving by CNC??? It's not HC, but @!*% sure is pretty!

Yup,  CNC cut incised carving.  Glad you like it!

[Jim Kibler]

How many different carving patterns will be available?

I have a few options in mind.  A simpler heavily relief carved example is one.  Another involves some silver.  It all takes time, though.  Thanks

[Marcruger]

"You already know my opinion. You’ll do as you please chasing the dollar. I’d ask you to honor the traditions and make your own rifles"

I hope this was said tongue-in-cheek.   Mr. Kibler can build carve and engrave fantastic longrifles when business is not calling him away.  The two Colonial "kits" he had carved and finished at CLA were stunning.  Since Jim produced every part of those two, I wouldn't call them kits, just "Jim Kibler rifles". 

[Jim Kibler]

Is that carving by CNC??? It's not HC, but @!*% sure is pretty!

Check out some of John Noll’s incised carving work.  This is more sophisticated and detailed, but the approaches used share some similarities as well. 

[Stoner creek]

 This should fire up some lively discussion on both sides of the coin.

[Jim Kibler]

Shaking things up is a key part of a successful business!  For or against, people talking is good.  Irrelevance is a killer.

[TDM]

Jim, your kits and innovations give all BP enthusiast a chance to own and shoot a quality muzzleloader. As the years ahead pass I believe what your doing will only preserve and not distract from the traditional aspect of building. I believe there will always be a market for more advanced kits and blank builds, and I would imagine many of those pursuing that path will have started with one of your kits. As for me, I’ve posted my entry into relief carving, and I will continue to work toward some level of competence, but I will still be on the phone to talk to Bree in the morning.

[Chowmi]

Jim,
I love what your are doing.  I’m also of two minds about it, but as long as it brings in new folks and gets people on a gun building mindset, I’m all for it.  In fact, I’ve built two of your kits and am thinking about a third in-between all my builds from a blank. 

If you have a minute to read, I’d like to relay a story from 40 years ago that I think has parallels with what you are doing.  it will seem entirely off-base at first, but bear with me. 

I’ve played drums all my life, from age about 12 or so.  In the eighties, it was all about drum machines.  I was all about real drums and Heavy Metal.  I went to a workshop in a recording studio and the fella was displaying the newest thing in electronic drums:  The Simmons drum machine.  You could play it, or program it. 
He programmed a nice beat and set it to play for us.  It was perfect.  Everything on perfect time and perfect consistency.  Grand.  It sounded frankly awful and awkward.  Absolutely no feel and no heart.  That was the techno music of the eighties.  He acknowledged that it did not sound right.
He then turned the magic dial:  The Error Dial.  You could introduce fractional errors in timing and consistency of the drum impacts.  It made the world of difference.  Just a slight bit of error made it groove.   It “felt” like a real drummer because no one is perfect.  That error does not need to be significant.  Once he went a few percentage points or so, it was horrible. 
Your CNC carving looks great.  But to me, it looks like the Simmons drum machine on 0% error. 
I’m in no position to criticize your work.  Wallace Gussler told me you took his carving class and could have tought it after about 2 days.  I’m not that guy. 
Just looking and thinking……. Throw some error in there please sir. 

Respectfully,
Norm

[Bill Raby]

   I have to agree with chowmi. I can see the appeal to someone who does not want to attempt carving. But it is very obviously carved by a computer.

[Jim Kibler]

Ahhh, now the detractors that want to question its merit since it is too precise and lacks “heart or soul”.  I recall this being an argument with our kits a few years ago, but that has thankfully simmered down.  Though well meaning in many cases, I think it’s often a response to a threat.  Take away the knowledge of how it’s made and the reaction will oftentimes be much different.

Everyone can have their preferences as far as how precise or refined something is made.  I like the spectrum of approaches, but I believe good design needs to be present in either.  What I do know how to do is make something with appeal to a wide variety of people.  I have my own style and approach that has worked.  I could have hand carved this just the same and been pleased with it.  Generally if I’m pleased with my work, others will be too😉.

Honestly, when I look at much of the carving being done today, sometimes from those quick to judge, I’m not all too impressed.  There’s often far bigger issues than how finely or precisely it is made!  At least in my view…  Carving is a very difficult skill to learn and master.  Expecting someone who assembles a kit to pull it off isn’t reasonable.

I’ll be finishing out a gun here soon and then you can judge it then.  You can tell me if it has appeal or not😉

Thanks for the nice post, Chowmi.  I didn’t take offense at all and know it all comes from a good place.

[Frozen Run]

As long as I don’t see a CNC copy of the Original Masters work I will not complain.

They'd probably make great study pieces. I'd love to have CNC facsimiles of originals to toss around my shop, wouldn't even need the hardware.

[conquerordie]

Nice Pedersoli!

[Steeltrap]

Naysayers always provide amusement. Always.

I responded to a different post which essentially stated if you buy a Kibler, your rifle will be the same as hundreds\thousands of other Kiblers. Not long after that thread, this one https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=77072.0 appeared showing the exact same rifles built....but the results are completely different.

There are not a lot of individuals who can do good carvings. Even less that can do amazing carvings. But let's keep in mind that all builds are modeled after "the originals". They are not new and unique, they are replicas. Or, as my former business partner would say...."Monkey see, monkey do." (Yes, harsh...but not far from the truth.)

So, now you, as a buyer, have more choices. You can leave it alone as Jim has produced it. You can expand upon it knowing "big mistakes" will be out of the way. You can "round" the edge's, combine the lines, lengthen the carvings (please Jim....don't come out with a version where one could shorten the lines!!). The buyer, like in the above referenced "two exact builds" threads has options. And why is that a bad thing?

Why can't I buy, own, shoot a rifle that is not only functional, but really appealing to the eye? Why can't I have a rifle where I see it as cost efficient and time efficient yet still far more attractive than a Leman build?

And I can change it, leave it alone, or paint it pink if that's what I want. There are Pedersoli's, and there are https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=77097.msg764596#new Pedersoli's.

Shake it up Jim! Provide individuals with options! I see no downside to this product option offerings!!