Author Topic: New product announcement tomorrow  (Read 5551 times)

Offline Jerry

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Re: New product announcement tomorrow
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2023, 02:34:50 PM »
Jim, I appreciate your ability to look ahead and to offer a carved rifle. Whether CNC or by your hand. I’m very impressed with your innovative ideas. I see so many of your Colonials assembled without carving or engraving. Keep offering new products. Your work is much appreciated. I have built several rifles. I look forward to your current and future offerings. Best of luck in the success of your much needed business. Jerry

Offline Mule Brain

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Re: New product announcement tomorrow
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2023, 03:05:36 PM »
My o my cnc has really come along way since my days in the furniture industry.

Very interesting, and can’t wait to see the end result
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: New product announcement tomorrow
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2023, 03:49:03 PM »
I think a CNC'd Beck with carving is a great idea. Would save me a lot of work. IMO Kibler's kit has been a shot in the arm for the muzzleloading community. Now everyone can have a nice looking gun to shoot. Hopefully all of those horrendous things that were brought to shoots in the past can be put in the back of the closet and stay there. Now, get busy on that 16 bore fowling gun, I have a piece of english walnut in storage for the past 20 years for this project. Do you want my drop and pull so you can design the kit around my needs? ;)
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Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: New product announcement tomorrow
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2023, 03:59:19 PM »
So let me be blunt to the naysayers...  If you feel threatened by the process behind this, that's fine and understandable.  Please though don't confuse the process with results.  Let me say, there are few stocks carved today that have equal or more merit to this.  That is, merit based on what it is; design, aesthetics execution etc.  I'm not saying this to pat myself on the back, but rather stating what I believe to be the truth.  Most carving I see has some pretty serious issues.  Period.  Maybe some don't have the ability to discern the difference...

So for someone who wants a carved longrifle with extremely high quality, this is available at a very affordable price and in a very timely fashion.

Based on feedback I feel pretty certain you'll be seeing lots of it in the future ;)  I'll be putting together a post about more details soon.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2023, 06:38:32 PM by Jim Kibler »

Offline smart dog

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Re: New product announcement tomorrow
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2023, 04:07:20 PM »
Hi,
I was sure Jim would develop this level of machine manufacture.  It is very impressive and will be a great boon to those who do not possess the skills or desire to possess the skills required for good carving and design.  They can still own and shoot a well decorated gun.  The design part ought to be a good application for AI because you could train the software using the best modern and original work, and then have it design the carving on the guns each time differently making each gun unique.

dave 
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Offline Sequatchie Rifle

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Re: New product announcement tomorrow
« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2023, 04:22:23 PM »
I rarely inject my thoughts and opinions into the "Gun Building" topics, mainly because I'm a lousy and impatient builder. I very much like these kits and this feature, especially for someone who wants to build one personal rifle that they will use and enjoy.  It certainly lack the merit of the rifles built from a plank and hand worked.  Its a KIT, nothing more, and a great way to ease into the pleasure of traditional shooting, and possible give someone the courage to actually build a rifle.  Reminds me the "snap together" airplane models of my youth.  I was always proud of the outcome until a say the painstakingly built old time balsa wood airplanes my father build from detailed old school plans.....   

I ordered one of the Southern Rifle kits when they first came out, mainly to support Jim.  It had one of the 46 inch long barrels.  I wouldn't have purchased the shorter one. I assembled it in a few days.  I added no embellishment. I have the original Whitson rifle Jim used to support the design of the kit, so it was fun to have a shooting version.  I've enjoyed it very much and gave it to one of my sons who is proud to have a rifle his "dad built". He uses is and not it looks similar to the original with wear and signs of frequent use. I would purchase another kit from Jim, if it had the 46 inch barrel in a .32 to .45 caliber and a few "custom" options, such as double set triggers, different guard options, and carving.
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Offline James Rogers

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Re: New product announcement tomorrow
« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2023, 04:23:36 PM »
   I have to agree with chowmi. I can see the appeal to someone who does not want to attempt carving. But it is very obviously carved by a computer.

From my phone, I can't tell it from something Jim hand carved ; ) looks like his style and precision to a "T"
« Last Edit: June 23, 2023, 04:27:03 PM by James Rogers »

Offline Dwshotwell

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Re: New product announcement tomorrow
« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2023, 04:52:37 PM »
This sort of innovation is more likely to add to demand rather than diminish it. There will still be collectors who want custom - built and decorated rifles, and there will still be builders who like to do the work themselves and want to learn, focusing on the process rather than the end result (I count myself in that category). From my point of view, this sort of kit doesn't take away from the people who are already buying custom rifles or various kits, but adds a new market of folks who may then want to take that next step (how many people on here started with a kit of some sort and then said, hey I'd like to try something a little more involved?). It may take away from folks who would have bought a lesser - quality finished rifle (my CVA that I built as a high schooler looks like a toy to me now, and a friend with a TC is thinking he needs to upgrade after seeing my Colonial in the woods last fall) who never really wanted to be builders. It may also push other kit offerings to step up their game. More importantly, it may mean more folks shooting black powder, which gives manufacturers a bigger market to sell to, and that can also be good for all of us.

I've built three Kiblers at this point (one of each model) and I love them all, but I have also tried to "make them my own," for better or for worse. I've also built one from a plank, and it has it's imperfections but I've definitely feel more pride about that one and intend to do more. Will I buy a kit with CNC carving? Probably not - I like struggling with it on my own. But that's fine. I have other avenues and they aren't going to go away.
David Shotwell

Offline stan57

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Re: New product announcement tomorrow
« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2023, 05:08:07 PM »
Innovative application of CNC technology.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2023, 08:47:22 PM by stan57 »

Offline HSmithTX

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Re: New product announcement tomorrow
« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2023, 05:23:53 PM »
As a long time CNC guy I can appreciate the time and effort that went into this.  The modeling, programming, prove out and optimization on display is impressive. 

Jim, check out 'runner cutters', typically used in plastic injection molds, they could add some freedom that balls don't and they are hella strong compared to balls.

Offline Bob Gerard

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Re: New product announcement tomorrow
« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2023, 05:33:14 PM »
Technology is amazing, I think to myself, as I scratch away on a cow horn with a pointy nail 🥹
« Last Edit: June 23, 2023, 05:42:48 PM by Bob Gerard »

Offline Old Time Hunter

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Re: New product announcement tomorrow
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2023, 05:38:10 PM »
Great! one less thing for people to learn!

Online Bob Roller

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Re: New product announcement tomorrow
« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2023, 05:39:57 PM »
The Kibler kits have mad it possible for someone who has limited rifle making time and skills or TOOLS like me to have a long rifle.
I prefer the fence post plain and simple Southern long rifles and have wondered why the carved ones were made when they took way too much time.I commented to Jud Brennan after handling one of his carved guns about being able to make 6 finished but plain rifles and he said "More than 6".This was at the CLA show several years ago.The Kibler and Chambers late Ketland locks are at the top of the stack and
I still think a half stock English sporting rifle with a late Ketland from either maker would be a welcome addition to our peculiar group.
Bob Roller

Offline bobw

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Re: New product announcement tomorrow
« Reply #38 on: June 23, 2023, 06:09:26 PM »
I am so impressed with what Jim has done in such a short time frame.  Taking a risk on building a business, from scratch, on a gun using modern cnc technology, and then taking it to this level.  I would love to understand what it takes, and the process, to go from his mind to the final product.  Ya or nay to the final product, we should all appreciate and applaud what has been accomplished and how it has woke up people to the ML sport.  I would have liked to been on this ride with Jim from the beginning, it’s just plain fascinating.

Offline Prairie dog shooter

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Re: New product announcement tomorrow
« Reply #39 on: June 23, 2023, 06:16:49 PM »
Wow!  There is going to be a market for that!

Offline Grischi

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Re: New product announcement tomorrow
« Reply #40 on: June 23, 2023, 06:23:09 PM »
It's just impressive. The carving is far beyond my poor abilities. If I ever get the opportunity to order another of Jim's kits, for sure I'd order it with the carving.

Christian

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: New product announcement tomorrow
« Reply #41 on: June 23, 2023, 06:35:59 PM »
   I have to agree with chowmi. I can see the appeal to someone who does not want to attempt carving. But it is very obviously carved by a computer.

From my phone, I can't tell it from something Jim hand carved ; ) looks like his style and precision to a "T"

Thank you James! 

Online Eric Kettenburg

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Re: New product announcement tomorrow
« Reply #42 on: June 23, 2023, 06:53:16 PM »
I can't imagine why anyone would get bunched panties over this.  It looks fantastic.  If someone likes it, they'll buy it.  If someone doesn't like it, then don't buy it.  I also don't think anyone who wants a totally one-of rifle is going to be all, well I guess I'll buy this instead and have one that a bunch of other people have.  I don't mean that as a negative in any way - I mean there is plenty of room in the world for whatever anyone wants.  If it makes you smile, it's all good (long as it's legal!).
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Offline parve

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Re: New product announcement tomorrow
« Reply #43 on: June 23, 2023, 07:22:44 PM »
I initially thought this was a teaser for a set of carving tools or something of that nature, I'm not sure if it's shadows being cast or some artifact from compressing the image, but it looks to me like there's some faceting around the incise cut highlighted in green (but nothing a few swipes of sandpaper couldn't blend together):


If Jim was onto a new way to approach incise carving and was selling the tools needed, I was on board. I guess I was halfway right, I was just stuck thinking in the hand tool box, and I don't think I can afford the tooling needed to take on carving with this approach  :o
Phil A.

Offline Enfield

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Re: New product announcement tomorrow
« Reply #44 on: June 23, 2023, 07:31:05 PM »
Jim, just another great Idea from you and I am still wondering about what is possible by using CNC.
Will you offer although a kind of carving for the Lockplate or Barrel?

Offline J. Talbert

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Re: New product announcement tomorrow
« Reply #45 on: June 23, 2023, 07:34:22 PM »
I can't imagine why anyone would get bunched panties over this.  It looks fantastic.  If someone likes it, they'll buy it.  If someone doesn't like it, then don't buy it.  I also don't think anyone who wants a totally one-of rifle is going to be all, well I guess I'll buy this instead and have one that a bunch of other people have.  I don't mean that as a negative in any way - I mean there is plenty of room in the world for whatever anyone wants.  If it makes you smile, it's all good (long as it's legal!).

There you go….  Well said.
Jeff
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Offline Jakob

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Re: New product announcement tomorrow
« Reply #46 on: June 23, 2023, 07:35:05 PM »
   I have to agree with chowmi. I can see the appeal to someone who does not want to attempt carving. But it is very obviously carved by a computer.

I agree. However, where's line between having CNC'd stock and then going all in and having everything CNC'd?.
However, it does look 'too perfect' for my taste.
My previous career was in visual effects/computer graphics and we probably spent more time on adding imperfections to the 'perfect' image that the computer would create, in order to make it look real.

Offline P.W.Berkuta

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Re: New product announcement tomorrow
« Reply #47 on: June 23, 2023, 07:37:05 PM »
In my opinion there is a market for this for a LOT of people out there. Someone who wants a nicely adorned rifle but either does not have the skill or willing to pay for some talented gun builder to make a rifle for them that cost a fortune and takes 5 + years to get - most would likely be dead by that time.
I look at this like the modern laser engraved handguns and rifles out there today. If you like it and want one then by all means buy one if not then pass it buy ;D
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: New product announcement tomorrow
« Reply #48 on: June 23, 2023, 07:44:49 PM »
I initially thought this was a teaser for a set of carving tools or something of that nature, I'm not sure if it's shadows being cast or some artifact from compressing the image, but it looks to me like there's some faceting around the incise cut highlighted in green (but nothing a few swipes of sandpaper couldn't blend together):


If Jim was onto a new way to approach incise carving and was selling the tools needed, I was on board. I guess I was halfway right, I was just stuck thinking in the hand tool box, and I don't think I can afford the tooling needed to take on carving with this approach  :o
Tools for incised carving are called gouges or sweeps. They have been available for more than a thousand years. I wouldn't expect Kibler would try and reinvent the wheel by selling chisels. BTW, I don't know what exactly you're seeing in that miniscule cut, but I'd keep sandpaper out of it.
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Offline parve

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Re: New product announcement tomorrow
« Reply #49 on: June 23, 2023, 07:52:38 PM »
I initially thought this was a teaser for a set of carving tools or something of that nature, I'm not sure if it's shadows being cast or some artifact from compressing the image, but it looks to me like there's some faceting around the incise cut highlighted in green (but nothing a few swipes of sandpaper couldn't blend together):


If Jim was onto a new way to approach incise carving and was selling the tools needed, I was on board. I guess I was halfway right, I was just stuck thinking in the hand tool box, and I don't think I can afford the tooling needed to take on carving with this approach  :o
Tools for incised carving are called gouges or sweeps. They have been available for more than a thousand years. I wouldn't expect Kibler would try and reinvent the wheel by selling chisels. BTW, I don't know what exactly you're seeing in that miniscule cut, but I'd keep sandpaper out of it.

Maybe this will help better illustrate what I'm seeing:

I've never seen tool marks like that in any other incise carving I've looked at so far, hence my confusion. I'll go back and sit in the newbie corner.
Phil A.