New product announcement tomorrow

[Eric Kettenburg]

You actually can find facets like that in incised carving that was cut by a V parting chisel and driven with a hammer.  Just like you can find them in hammer-driven engraving to some extent.  You can find anything if you look at it with a magnifying glass.  I don't think historically anyone was looking at anything with a magnifying glass.  I also sure hope someone doesn't look at anything I do with a magnifying glass.

[Mike Brooks]

You actually can find facets like that in incised carving that was cut by a V parting chisel and driven with a hammer.  Just like you can find them in hammer-driven engraving to some extent.  You can find anything if you look at it with a magnifying glass.  I don't think historically anyone was looking at anything with a magnifying glass.  I also sure hope someone doesn't look at anything I do with a magnifying glass.

Me too. Sometimes I engrave a wide line.

[Eric Kettenburg]

Sometime I am playing with tools when I should not be doing so.  Wink wink nod nod.  Say no more.

[varsity07840]

You actually can find facets like that in incised carving that was cut by a V parting chisel and driven with a hammer.  Just like you can find them in hammer-driven engraving to some extent.  You can find anything if you look at it with a magnifying glass.  I don't think historically anyone was looking at anything with a magnifying glass.  I also sure hope someone doesn't look at anything I do with a magnifying glass.

Me too. Sometimes I engrave a wide line.

You mean like this?

[Jim Kibler]

W/ the advent of a CNC carved LR. the only person having an advantage is Jim Kibler. ....money, money. What isn't acknowledged is that Kibler's products are destroying the art of building a LR. Kibler LR models are so easy that little technique is acquired when assembling his products.  When will people "wake up" as to what his motives are.....again money, money...

I really pity the custom builders of LRs who shortly will go broke because of Kibler.

And the future models will continue to be introduced to continue making  more money.....the life span of his models is short lived and evidently boring to assemble....too easy.

Kibler has a big advantage.....a captive audience of AL members and Kibler will be remembered as the person who destroyed the custom building of LRs.......Fred

Ah, I wondered when you would arrive to the party!  Actually the sales of our very first kit just continue to grow.  You're assumptions are pretty much wrong.  If so boring to assemble, wonder why we have so many repeat customers?  More than anyone would probably guess.

To each his own.  We live in a country where we can make choices.  Do you really want the alternative? 

I would wager we have brought more people into the longrifle culture than anyone else has in recent times.  Times change.  I'm not afraid to keep pushing forward even if you don't like it!  Ha.

[Jim Kibler]

You actually can find facets like that in incised carving that was cut by a V parting chisel and driven with a hammer.  Just like you can find them in hammer-driven engraving to some extent.  You can find anything if you look at it with a magnifying glass.  I don't think historically anyone was looking at anything with a magnifying glass.  I also sure hope someone doesn't look at anything I do with a magnifying glass.

Me too. Sometimes I engrave a wide line.

You mean like this?

Well, that is a MASTERPIECE.  If it hadn't had that flaw showing it to be hand made it would be pretty much worthless!  Ha

[varsity07840]

W/ the advent of a CNC carved LR. the only person having an advantage is Jim Kibler. ....money, money. What isn't acknowledged is that Kibler's products are destroying the art of building a LR. Kibler LR models are so easy that little technique is acquired when assembling his products.  When will people "wake up" as to what his motives are.....again money, money...

I really pity the custom builders of LRs who shortly will go broke because of Kibler.

And the future models will continue to be introduced to continue making  more money.....the life span of his models is short lived and evidently boring to assemble....too easy.

Kibler has a big advantage.....a captive audience of AL members and Kibler will be remembered as the person who destroyed the custom

building of LRs.......Fred

Mr. Kibler is running a business.  His products have gained wide acceptance and approval. Rightfully so.  Ideally, the intent is to make a living from one's business. In accusing him of putting custom builders out of business, you're indirectly making the same accusation towards the people who buy his products. Are we all supposed to buy nice rifles only from a custom builder if we don't want to risk building a rifle that may turn out to be a tomato stake?  Perhaps all custom rifle builders should ignore products sold by  Rice, Track, The Log Cabin and such go back to fabricating their own parts from scratch. Maybe even building their own rifling machine. Now that's keeping tradition alive. If your theory was adhered to, there would be two kinds of shooters with muzzleloaders that are not over the counter products. You'd have the ones that are fine with paying thousands of dollars for a rifle and those who choose to build one themselves. Some of those rifles will turn out fine, others will not because the builder doesn't have the necessary skill level. I like the option offered by Mr. Kibler.

[James Rogers]

There is no way that the progression and ingenuity of these kits will hinder anyone from building from the stick or hand embellishments. The handful that have or will acquire that rare desire will be driven to do so regardless and they will not purchase said items in lieu of doing it themselves.  What these kits do is offer something for those who have no desire to pursue things down a path that only a few choose to trod no matter the external factors.  It would also behoove many of us mortals to have something like this on hand to show us how slab sided, unrefined and formless our work is in comparison. That last comment is directed at myself and Im referring to Jim's work and not the result of the CNC producing it. I have known this fellow for many years and have learned under him what my feeble talents can comprehend.  I can say with authority that what we see in architecture, symmetry, artistry and form in all elements of these products is not CNC but Jim Kibler.

[canadianml1]

JK, keep on keeping on!! Good stuff!!

[rich pierce]

 The moderators strive for no preferential treatment here. Since everyone has different preferences, I’m sure it doesn’t always seem we reach that goal. There’s nothing in Jim’s post that comes close to breaking any policies here. All are welcome to share their new and old inventory. However, personal attacks are not allowed.

[Rolf]

The CNC carving and quality on the kit is beautiful and well beyond my skills. But I would not buy it, because there will be lots of identical rifles. I would want my rifle to have more of a personal touch. The cnc kits without the carving gives more opportunities to personalize the rifle.

Best regards
Rolf

[Jim Kibler]

The CNC carving and quality on the kit is beautiful and well beyond my skills. But I would not buy it, because there will be lots of identical rifles. I would want my rifle to have more of a personal touch. The cnc kits without the carving gives more opportunities to personalize the rifle.

Best regards
Rolf

Many (Most) do not have the ability and / or desire to carve a longrifle.  For those that do, they should buy one of our un-carved rifles and have at it themselves!

[David Price]

Whoever laid out the drawing and design certainly did a nice job.  I assume it was Jim and I really like the basic design.  I never particularly cared for incised carving, except when it was used to enhance relief carving.  A good portion of that carving could easily be turned into raised carving, and possibly eliminate some of the incised.   A builder  could customize the carving and  change the whole look of the finished rifle which might make them feel better.  Most people will be very satisfied with it just the way it is.

I can't imagine how you did this Jim but you surely did a great job.

David Price

[BOB HILL]

I heard people say the same thing when my friend, Jim Chambers started with his kits. Didn’t seam to hurt the custom builder’s business ,that I could see. True this is a lot less to learn about gunmaking than Jim’s fine kits were. I think the market for custom work will remain like it has in every other art form. I also think the better artists will continue to have that extra drive to learn to build their own. I do think there is room for us all in this muzzle loading world. Just my thoughts. Buzz on boys.
Bob     Typed earlier forgot to hit post. Anybody wonder why I can’t run a cnc machine good luck all

[Eric Kettenburg]

I just don't get why this subject always ends up in an argument.  We all need to drink more.

It's not like we're discussing, say, a post-war clunky rifle by John Rupp and trying to inflate it's value by making up a wild story about his father George making it.  And subsequently signing it "John."

 

[runastav]

I remember years ago when Pedersoli beginn using CNC the produkt begin to be MUCH better 
Runar

[Mike Brooks]

We all need to drink more

HERE HERE!  Kettenburg always seems to find the solution to the problem.

[Mike Brooks]

You actually can find facets like that in incised carving that was cut by a V parting chisel and driven with a hammer.  Just like you can find them in hammer-driven engraving to some extent.  You can find anything if you look at it with a magnifying glass.  I don't think historically anyone was looking at anything with a magnifying glass.  I also sure hope someone doesn't look at anything I do with a magnifying glass.

Me too. Sometimes I engrave a wide line.

You mean like this?

THAT'S IT! I have done tons of horrible stuff like that over the years. It's funny how many people send me their stuff to be engraved. I always recommend Chuck Edwards but he has a longer wait time and charges more. You would think people would learn.
EDIT:  Dam! I run some of the best borders in the business!

[Mike Brooks]

Since Fred's post has mysteriously disappeared... It IS all about making money. It's why I built guns for a long time, I gots bills to pay! I sure as heck wouldn't have wasted 43 years of my life if I wasn't making money. There is nothing wrong with making money, it's called capitalism. It's what our economy is based on.
 Kibler's stuff is great and puts people in the game with a nice gun they otherwise couldn't afford. Having been a fulltime builder I can say Kibler's kits never took any business away from me. People expect a certain "look" from my work, that's why they have me build guns and that's why I was/am successful.
Carry on, I'm going to take EK's advice now.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

For many years I have admired Jim Kibler's rifles....the ones he made by hand before he ever sold a kit...Certainly one of the very top, most precise, accurate, and artistic builders in the world. A very small club!
I learned a lot from his work, his teaching, and generous advice... and he never BS'd!  Many have found a way to personalize the Kibler kits, and I am sure they will do the same with this carved rifle as well...... It all depends on what you want to do and/or what you want for a product. I would love a handmade Kibler rifle... but I may be better able to afford one of these kits...   I love the guns I have built and what I have learned along the way, but I don't have enough years left to develop the talent Jim already has and has been able to provide us with the opportunity to own such fine work.

There are many on here whose work I would love to own, many who have helped me immensely and Jim and his CNC kits are definitely in that club... Some of the shooters in my club now have Kibler kit rifles assembled and finished by another builder.. they are among the very nicest guns in the club and attract a lot of visitor attention!  I think that is good for our sport/art and the mystery of the American Longrifle!  Thanks Jim!! I love it.

[oldtravler61]

   Well I just read all these opinions.... When I first got interested in front stuffers their wasn't much in good quality kits. So I decided to make my own...   Now along comes Jim Kibler and his CNC kits that are P.C. H.C.styled to perfection but that's a false word because Jim isn't one to ever say good enough like some others do...Their idea of improvement is raising their prices...
  Before anyone gets on their high horse I have never bought anything from him. I just recognize his commitment to helping people get into muzzle loaders. Giving them a high quality product for a reasonable cost without breaking the bank.... Keep doing what your doing Jim and Katherine and let the nay sayers do what they do best....nothing...!
 

[Jdbeck]

We all need to drink more

HERE HERE!  Kettenburg always seems to find the solution to the problem.

I can agree with you all on this statement.

And don’t get me wrong, there’s no doubt in Jim’s Business success and skill, or his rifles.

It’s just a slippery slope, 5 years from now Kibler may have a “Albrect, Beck, Dickert, Schroyer, Reedy, Haines, ect.” Which would definitely hurt the custom builders, and an amazing tradition. I don’t have a leg in the game my income is not related to muzzleloading, however for those that are I can see their perspective. I have a lot of respect for the phenomenal builders who have made a living out of this tradition.

Jim you said you owe no responsibility in your recent video, I’d  think any member of the CLA, KRA, or NMLRA would want to preserve this culture. You have certainly brought alot of people to the community, and like I said to you previously you are in a unique position to do a lot of good, hopefully you find a balance. “Great powder/great responsibility”.

I think there’s currently a void you are filling, but it’s where CNC can take you… and as people have predicted the future before—this is probably it. I’d rather see more Kibler rifles personally with your own influences.

 That’s my perspective, it’s not an attack by any means. If you do a Beck Kit—you will be telling my families history— so your helping me In essence- my goal is to tell the story.😂😜

But who am I? Just stirring the pot for contemplation.

[maudite]

I don t think any custom makers will close their shops as there will always be someone that wants something different or personal.Also most people will never have the funds for a custom gun but they can buy a Kibler and have a nice gun that they can afford and enjoy.This is a boon to our sport

[TDM]

I hear the naysayers speaking of, oh this might happen, or that might happen, or this is and that might happen. All the while Jim Kibler is producing a quality product and offering options to customers for what they want and keeps them involved in traditional muzzleloading. Those that have the skills or want to develop the skills will always seek an advanced kit or plank build and those with enough money will pay for a custom build. For me, the greatest aspect of Jim’s rifles is they’re great shooters, accurate and consistent.

[Karl Kunkel]

Jim,

Maybe a wood box Beck with minimal relief carving/molding around the lock panels (beaver tail & apron) and possibly incised lines along the lower butt stock and out the fore arm.

Any remaining adornment could be left to the customer's discretion/abilities.