Jim Beckwourth rifle

[Herb]

I appreciate all the comments, thanks.  This barrel and lock have been repurposed so much, who knows what they started out as.    I should not have said I was making a bench copy.  What I am doing is to make a rifle as close in appearance to the rifle as it is now, as I can what with making parts or modifying the closest match.  The Muzzleloader Magazine article has drawings and photos of the rifle.  "Rifle barrel shortened from original length".  "Relocated and strengthened barrel lugs".  In "The Rabbet", the lock mortice,  is there a place for a hook at the front?  Both photos of the lock interior do not show a hook at the front of the lock plate.  (Do I really need a front lock bolt on this flintlock?  I don't want to do the hook.)

Eric- I have thinned mainsprings before, and cut a groove in the diagonal barrel flat for a mainspring.  And that is a small rammer.  The rod pipe inside diameters are .520 front, .500 rear and, and the entry pipe is .500.  The rod groove is 1/2 inch.   The rod is 41" long, .470 at front and .32 at the rear.

Bob, thanks for your generous offer.  Friend Carney Pace offered to help shape a Gunmaker's special, but I think the L&R900 is my best bet.  I have a kind offer of one.

HighUintas-  I have used a shim on a bolster before.  That is a good suggestion.  And with no half-cock notch in the tumbler, why double set triggers?

I called Ryan at Muzzleloader Builders Supply to ask if the L&R900 lock would work on this 1 1/4" barrel.  He said the lock mainspring is now shaped differetly from earlier models, being wider where the top arm angled end turns up under the bolster.  He said it would hit the barrel.  He agreed there was enough bulk in the barrel to grind a clearance groove, or the upper arm could be slimmed at the bend.

If this stock was built with a 5 or 5.2" long flint lock in the early 1800's, what lock would that be?  Were there such short locks?  I do believe it was a flintlock due to the groove for the hammer stop at the top of the lock plate.

It is taking longer to figure how to build this rifle that to actually build it.  I really appreciate all your comments.

[Eric Kettenburg]

It is taking longer to figure how to build this rifle that to actually build it.

Herb, that's one of the reasons I always love to see the work that you post.  It's not all willy-nilly!  It's obvious you put a lot of care and thought into each project.

This is an antique lock that I used to stock up a 'new' antiqued rifle.  If I recall correctly, it was pretty good-sized and the plate was around 5" long or so.  This is exactly what I would be looking for to stock up the piece you are planning. 

Just my opinion, but the lock can make or break a piece.  Not just in terms of function but also in terms of the appearance.  For example, there have been oodles of rifles built over the years using dead stock Siler locks. Many are fantastic rifles built by true artisans, but as soon as I see a dead stock Siler lock, I have kind of a "oh $#@*" moment.  Robert Weil and I have discussed this ad nauseum.

This is what I would envision being on this rifle as-new if you want to go flint:

[Bob Roller]

That is a good looking lock on that rifle;I have always liked the double throated "cock" and never recall seeing a broken one.
i wish I could still make that style of lock but now it's doubtful I ever will but there are a lot of locks available now and some that
that be brought up to  a usable level when new.
Bob Roller

[Bob Roller]

I appreciate all the comments, thanks.  This barrel and lock have been repurposed so much, who knows what they started out as.    I should not have said I was making a bench copy.  What I am doing is to make a rifle as close in appearance to the rifle as it is now, as I can what with making parts or modifying the closest match.  The Muzzleloader Magazine article has drawings and photos of the rifle.  "Rifle barrel shortened from original length".  "Relocated and strengthened barrel lugs".  In "The Rabbet", the lock mortice,  is there a place for a hook at the front?  Both photos of the lock interior do not show a hook at the front of the lock plate.  (Do I really need a front lock bolt on this flintlock?  I don't want to do the hook.)

Eric- I have thinned mainsprings before, and cut a groove in the diagonal barrel flat for a mainspring.  And that is a small rammer.  The rod pipe inside diameters are .520 front, .500 rear and, and the entry pipe is .500.  The rod groove is 1/2 inch.   The rod is 41" long, .470 at front and .32 at the rear.

Bob, thanks for your generous offer.  Friend Carney Pace offered to help shape a Gunmaker's special, but I think the L&R900 is my best bet.  I have a kind offer of one.

HighUintas-  I have used a shim on a bolster before.  That is a good suggestion.  And with no half-cock notch in the tumbler, why double set triggers?

I called Ryan at Muzzleloader Builders Supply to ask if the L&R900 lock would work on this 1 1/4" barrel.  He said the lock mainspring is now shaped differetly from earlier models, being wider where the top arm angled end turns up under the bolster.  He said it would hit the barrel.  He agreed there was enough bulk in the barrel to grind a clearance groove, or the upper arm could be slimmed at the bend.

If this stock was built with a 5 or 5.2" long flint lock in the early 1800's, what lock would that be?  Were there such short locks?  I do believe it was a flintlock due to the groove for the hammer stop at the top of the lock plate.

It is taking longer to figure how to build this rifle that to actually build it.  I really appreciate all your comments.

[Bob Roller]

Why not have double set triggers with NO half cock position.This is as basic a rifle as can be made and the triggers can easily be made to allow cocking the lock and then firing it.A KISS gun meaning Keep It Simply Simple.Unadorned and all perfotmance.
Bob Roller

[Herb]

I finished the Beckwourth rifle.  About a thousand dollars of parts and over 300 hours in it.  Did it all myself except Carney Pace roughed out the trigger guard.  Friend Curmudgeon sent me a Davis LR900  lock which I used.  I made the entry pipe from a GRRW blank Carl Walker gave me, and the rod pipes and nose cap from 2-inch square steel tubing.  The rifle is as close to the original as I could make it.  Jeff Hengesbaugh said he would put the rawhide wrap on the wrist.  Bobby Hoyt made the barrel, and it is a good one.  It is a .560 bore  and I did my sight regulating with .535 Hornady balls.  Bigger would be better, and Track has them.   Pecatonica did the stock with a straight 1 1/8 barrel channel, which I opened to the 1 1/4" breech area.  The trigger guard was the biggest problem of all.  The rifle is so long and heavy (15 pounds on a spring scale) that I had to be very careful handling it not to drop it on its heel and crack the wrist, which is what happened to the original.  I reinforced the wrist with a seven-inch long 3/8 steel tubing gas line epoxied in.

Malware won't let my images show. I tried the "exclusions" but can't make it work.

[Herb]

The pictures showed up.  I ran out of the Levi patching and the bore didn't like what I used for the last testing.  The pictures can be enlarged by right clicking, and then again.

[Herb]

Here is my final target with Jim's rifle, just to test 120 grains (weight-corrected measure) of Swiss 1 1/2 powder.  I did not clean between shots nor have a cleaning patch on the seater jag.  The ball got hard to seat.  It was also the end of the day and with the clouded sky I could not see the sights well for my last shot.  (You can right-click twice to enlarge the picture).


image hosting website

[bptactical]

I say this with absolute truth-
This board is full of National Treasures.
The knowledge, history, talent and skills are incredible and irreplaceable.

Thank you to all of you and Merry Christmas.

[Herb]

bptactical-  On behalf of all who post their best efforts here, we say thank you for your kind and thoughtful words.  The  best of the season to all of us.  Herb

[Herb]

Carney delivered my Beckwourth copy to Jeff at Glorieta, NM and photographed the original Beckwourth rifle (at top) and my copy.  Jeff did the wrist wrap with rawhide and put more wear on my copy. (You can double-right click to enlarge).

I don't know how he made it look so old, but that is impressive.  Jeff wanted the copy made as the original flintlock.

[Roger B]

The Davis trade rifle lock becomes a very good lock if sent to rBrad Emig. That's what I had to do. It may be a better lock off the shelf since Log Cabin took over its production.
Roger B.

[Vaquero]

Thank you for documenting this Herb. Just saw the rifle and met Jeff yesterday at the Martinez house in Taos. I think I’m going to build a bench copy, or at least a similar rifle, and how you went about doing this build will be very helpful!

Davison

[Hungry Horse]

 I’m alway very skeptical when somebody who eats, sleeps, and dreams, about anything miraculously finds one. So my observation is that this gun has indeed seen a hard life. Possible in the hands of a historic person. Does the signature mean anything? I’m sure it does, but what. Why would somebody put their name on the bottom of the barrel? I’ve seen several fur trade era guns with the owners name carved in the stock, or roughly engraved in the metal fittings, but never on the bottom of the barrel. The current lock has no half cock notch that I can see, and the triggers are of the type that fire  only from the set position. This would indicate to me that this lock was never a flintlock. Also if it had a different lock, it also must have had a different trigger system. An evaluation by someone with an extreme depth of knowledge on the subject of antique firearms, and no connection to this relic, would go a long way toward convincing me it’s the real thing.

Hungry Horse