Ketland Trade Pistol kit from MBS (finished)

[Bob Gerard]

I received the Ketland Trade Pistol kit from Muzzleloader Builder’s Supply yesterday and the kit is very good.
My initial impression is that the lock and barrel look like they will align very well which is nice 👏
The lock is from L&R (Late American Flintlock) and feels good and strong.
The brass parts are nicely cast and sideplate is really simple, cut brass, as it is intended to be. (Ryan included a whole bunch of extra screws that will certainly come in handy for future projects as well!)
With lots of wood to work with, I think I will maybe deviate from the basic Ketland Trade Pistol design and try to do some nice tang and lock moldings, forestock and rear entry pipe carving , use another style of sideplate as well a thumb piece(?) and give it a more “generic” pistol feel.
At any rate, it looks like it will be a fun project for the next few weeks as time permits

[TDM]

That should make for a fun project Bob. Look forward to seeing the end result!

[Bob Gerard]

It sure doesn’t look as challenging as the Sparrow pistol! I’m hoping for fun, a low stress/ low cussing project 😎

[TDM]

It sure doesn’t look as challenging as the Sparrow pistol! I’m hoping for fun, a low stress/ low cussing project 😎

I think a low stress/low cussing build is a great idea, I'm in need of one too.

[Bob Gerard]

TDM, well this little number would compliment your new Trade Gun nicely!

[TDM]

TDM, well this little number would compliment your new Trade Gun nicely!

Yes it would!

[CooleyS]

I have wondered about making a small serpent sideplate for a Ketland pistol build I have planned. There is an old set of Northstar West trade gun plans that show a smaller version of the trade gun serpent sideplate. Mike Lea showed me a serpent sideplate he had made for a small trade gun he made for his daughter…it was very cool!
-Steve

[alacran]

Thank you for posting this. I was unaware of the L&R late American flintlock.
At first glance it looks like a smaller version of a Durs Egg. I went to their website. and it shows both the outer and inside views of the lock.
The internals appear to be much the same as a small Siler. I was hoping the internals would have been like the Manton.
It is good that there is another pistol sized lock out there.  I don't know why Mr. Roberts chose this lock for the pistol. I will have to call him and ask him.
Let us know how this lock performs.

[Bob Gerard]

Hi, well except for the roller frizzen, it doesn’t resemble their Durrs Egg to me  (my Durrs Egg from L&R is 42 years old).
But this lock works well initially and I hope it stays preforming like it does. Testing the lock, I had burning sparks landing on my work bench that I was standing at.
Ryan told me that this lock was the one closest to the original That he could get. On his, he filed off the molding decorations on the lock face to make it look more similar, he said. I didn’t do that on this one.
Here is a pic of the Durrs Egg and the Late American locks by L&R:

[Clark Badgett]

Chris Hirsch sells an appropriate pistol trade lock kit for one of these.

[alacran]

I have a rifle and a smoothbore with Durs Egg locks on them. One is a very early production, when they still pinned the stirrup to the tumbler.
As I said at first glance it looks like a small Egg to me. It wouldn't take much filing to make it even more so. There is enough room in the plate to do so.
I don't know where L&R got the idea to make this lock, or why they named it as such.
I must admit I knew little about Ketland trade pistols. I did find photos of two originals online.
The Sharpe Trade pistol lock that Chris Hirsh sells, has a different style and smaller pan than the Ketland lock on the original.
As you said Mr. Roberts filed off the rear lock moldings and that would be a fairly close look to the original.

[Clark Badgett]

I have a rifle and a smoothbore with Durs Egg locks on them. One is a very early production, when they still pinned the stirrup to the tumbler.
As I said at first glance it looks like a small Egg to me. It wouldn't take much filing to make it even more so. There is enough room in the plate to do so.
I don't know where L&R got the idea to make this lock, or why they named it as such.
I must admit I knew little about Ketland trade pistols. I did find photos of two originals online.
The Sharpe Trade pistol lock that Chris Hirsh sells, has a different style and smaller pan than the Ketland lock on the original.
As you said Mr. Roberts filed off the rear lock moldings and that would be a fairly close look to the original.

It's not the pan persay, it's the tail of the lock that differs most. Both are of a general established pattern, like the English trade muskets. Barrels are normally found in the 9" length, both iron and bronze, and usually a straight taper.
Trade guns are kinda my jam.

[Bob Gerard]

Worked on the pistol grip and installed the butt cap.
I want to deviate from a 'Ketland Trade Pistol' towards something more generic (and using a different side plate and maybe doing some carving).
It's going to be fun to see where it will go.

[TDM]

I like the shape and bottom swell Bob.

[Clark Badgett]

Bob, I’m certain it will look absolutely splendid, as usual with your work, when you are finished. Don’t be too overly concerned over the lock. The Ketlands were known to use different locks and side plates at times.

[Old Time Hunter]

That lock looks like the L&R RPL replacement lock for the CVA . I have reshaped the plate a little and, used them on Southern rifles with good results. Can be made quick and reliable with a little fine tuning. The RPL line of locks gets over looked a lot but, there are a couple that are good locks with tuning!

[Bob Roller]

That "American"style lock looks a LOT like the Chet Shoults Ketland from 1956 and one of these looks much like those I sent to Germany for a long time
I passed those moulds on to the Mould and Gun Shop in Ohio.The moulds for the mechanism"s would have guaranteed a below sub standard lock and I never  even thought about using them.Those moulds as I remember wee marked "Bailes" and were ideal size for the pistols Helmut Mohr made in Germany that were patterned after a Boutet once owned by Napoleon.They were made by Louis Smith in Tennessee I think and I got them from TOW in 1979 in exchange for 4 finished locks after I figured out a suitable mechanism that was not too labor intensive
to make and get paid for.Mohr paid me $150+shipping for every one he got and was glad to get them.I got a negative reaction here in the USA but I wasn't soliciting their orders or opinions and was paid by wire transfers into my bank account.No bitching about price from the Rheinland.This was the late 70's and early 80's and continued with appropriate price increases as inflation crept in over the years.
Bob Roller

[Bob Gerard]

I have been considering sideplate options for the pistol since I didn't want the one that was used on the Ketland trade pistol. Looking at various workable options, and wanting one somewhat decorative (but not as ornately chisled as the one on my Sparrow pistol) I chose one that was used on a British Light Dragoon (*gasp*). It would fit but something didn't look 'right'. After mounting it I thought about just cutting off the flaming tail, but then it still wouldn't look right to me. Putting it aside and then looking at it again this morning I thought that a simple curl on the tail would give it much more balance and be less busy. So, into the shop I went and after about an hour and a half, this is what I came up with.

[TDM]

Bob I like the shortened side plate. It's a better fit for sure.

[Clark Badgett]

Bob, rest assured. There were some odd side plates observed on English trade pistols. In fact side plates might be the most common variations.

[Bob Gerard]

Thank you TDM and Clark.
I know I am not playing by the rules but sometimes that's most of the fun 

[Bob Gerard]

I am going to start working on the forestock next, putting on the ramrod pipes. There’s a lot of wood to remove.
I am referring to an original 18th Century pistol I have, also about 62 caliber. It’s so helpful to give me an actual item to hold and use as a guide. I am quite surprised at the thinness of the grip. It’s very comfortable to hold.

[Bob Gerard]

The hardware is on and next I will start shaping the stock. I’m still up in the air about that sideplate, however. It looks kinda funky to me, so I may go with something else.

[oldtravler61]

  Bob I think that extra hole seems to throw it off.  JMHO.  but I actually liked the longer one...

[Bob Gerard]

  Bob I think that extra hole seems to throw it off.  JMHO.  but I actually liked the longer one...

It must have looked great on the original pistol, but just seems too "cartoonish" to me here. I decided to use another sideplate.