Bark tan deer hide bag

[wvmtnman]

I am wanting to bark tan a deer hid and attempt to make it into a shooting bag.  Has anyone here done this?  Will the leather be strong enough?  Anyth thing to watch out for during the process of any comments would be appreciated.
                                                          Thanks, Brian

[BrownBear]

I can't say about bark tanned, but as a rule deer is too thin and soft for my taste in bags.  That is, unless it's line with something like ticking to help carry the weight and hold its shape.  I'm ready to be re-educated on this point, but so far anything I've tried with unlined deer just kinda sags and flops around once you put a little bit of stuff in the finished bag.

[B.Barker]

I have never done any bark tanning myself but I have used bark tan deer for shot bags. There is good bad and inbetween. A good piece of bark tan which is vegetable tanned they just use bark tan because that is what most people use to get the tannic acid from. The hide will make bags that hold thier shape well. They are not as stiff as beef hides but still stiff enough. Brain tan and chrome tanned hide won't work well. Some doe and all young deer are to light weight to make good bag leather also. Some guys tan there hides and they are extra soft and some leave them stiffer. I like the stiffer stuff for bags. I don't know what makes the differance but I suspect it is how they break the hides. Just my two cents for what its worth.

[David Rase]

Go to Jim Filipski's web site, http://www.liv18thc.com/  It has a very to the point way to bark tan.  I was very impressed with the method.
DMR

[acorn20]

Brian,

The leather from a bark tanned deer skin is excellent for bags.  I made a bag in 1973 from a bark tanned hide and just replaced it this Spring.  I just plain wore it out.  The fellow that tanned it for me lived up around Wells Tannery, PA.   I took six hides to him to be tanned as I remember; two with the hair on and four bark tanned.  For all the work that man put into the tanning of those hides, he only charged me seven dollars each!  

The bark tanned hides are a nice, dark, reddish-brown color.  I still have the two hides with the hair on and at least three of the bark tanned hides and they're in fine shape.  I unroll them every so often and apply a little leather conditioner to keep them pliable.  

Dan

[Eric Fleisher]

Hey Dan,

If you decide you want to part with one of those hides, I know a bag maker who would put it to good use.

Eric

[acorn20]

Hi Eric,

I don't know if you remember me but a couple of other fellows and I from Chambersburg met you at Lewisburg this past February.  I'll bring a couple of those bark tanned hides along for you to look over at the next show.

I'm currently laid off from work so I thought I'd get busy and make a couple of double bags.  I made them out of a bargain priced piece of buffalo hide and I had to skive @!*% near half of the thickness away till I got the thickness I wanted.  Both bags are identical and if I can figure out how to post pictures on the site I'll give you a look see.

Dan

[Eric Fleisher]

Dan,

I do remember you and I look forward to seeing you at Lewisburg this year.  I will have my own table this year.  I will be right behind Mark Wheland in the main room.  Be sure to stop by and bring your new bags.

Eric

[Rado]

Go to Jim Filipski's web site, http://www.liv18thc.com/  It has a very to the point way to bark tan.  I was very impressed with the method.
DMR

Do you know if one uses the inner bark too? I found an oak in the forrest which was cut down like 6 months ago, judging by the cuts but Im not sure.
If its only the outer bark, I wonder why he points out the importance for the bark to be as fresh as possible. The outer bark is dead and outside in the rain for many many years, isnt it?
What rotts fast, is the inner bark.
Its not easy to get some from a fresh tree. I cant be picky at the moment (untill I find something fresh), therefore Im curious how old would be too old?

[David G]

Best I can tell there is active tannin in the bark of a live tree and when it dies off that process stops and over time the tannin that is present will leach out if left exposed to the elements. 6 months is likely pushing it and really no way of saying for sure unless you tested it with a barkometer. A $#@* shoot for sure. Another option is from Matt Richards at braintan.com. He offers various bark extracts that are ready to go. I’ve used some of those with good results. He should be able to provide instruction as well.

[Rado]

Yes, thanks! If I dont find anything for lets say a year or so, I will try him. Of course I want to collect everything by myself if I can, plus the shipping costs to Germany.  I should do a search for similar kits in Europe first. I didnt do that yet.
And are bits of the inner bark inside the kit?

[David G]

So sorry didn’t realize you were out of country. I bet with some searching you’ll be able find what you need.

[Rado]

No problem. ;-) I wishI could put that information under my avatar.
And I see on braintan.com that the inner bark is used too. Good to know.

[hawkeye]

Hello,I made several barktan deer bags and is heavy enough for a bag.I find lately a source for baktan leather from distant drums.they have hides 6-8 oz or some more.
You can dye them with walnut or suede leather dye.or you surche someone who have some to sale,but mostly more exspensive as distant drums

[James Rogers]

I have bark tanned deer hides in my young days and made a bag from it. I used the thickest hide I had and cut the body from the spine area. It holds shape fine without a cloth liner as I despise them.
The vegetable tannage (even commercial veg tan uses some kind of barks in their liquor) can create a firmer hide than some other types of tannage as a general rule.
Where most people fail is by oiling the hides to where they can't take a proper burnish. Moderns tend to want to destroy the characteristics of a bark tannage and try to make it like a floppy chrome tanned hide. Most communities had a tanner who ran a tanyard. By the late 1800s where I live they had mostly shut down and a larger industrial style tanyard was set up at the edge of the nearest city. Much oak bark was processed thru there. After doing it I now much prefer to use commercial leather. I have yet to find someone in the US who is properly making same on a small scale for sale so a do it yourself is the way.

[Tim Crosby]

 I wish I could put that information under my avatar.

 You can. sort of, click on your name, then click "Modify Profile" then click "Forum Profile". You will see "Personal Text", type in what you want to say then scroll down and click "Change Profile) Your message will show at the bottom of all of your posts, take a look at the bottom of James' and you will see what I'm talking about.

   Tim
 

[Rado]

Hello,I made several barktan deer bags and is heavy enough for a bag.I find lately a source for baktan leather from distant drums.they have hides 6-8 oz or some more.
You can dye them with walnut or suede leather dye.or you surche someone who have some to sale,but mostly more exspensive as distant drums

I got my hides from a German drum maker. https://www.goldweide-trommelbau.de/shop?page=3
They even got Bison. But this would not be authentic for F&I-War or Rev-War bags I guess.
Im slowly regretting that I ordered deer. Stuff appears quite thin. Im already thinking that I should order horse hide before I waste a lot of time, energy and precious materials to end up with a window cloth.

[Rado]

I have bark tanned deer hides in my young days and made a bag from it. I used the thickest hide I had and cut the body from the spine area. It holds shape fine without a cloth liner as I despise them.
The vegetable tannage (even commercial veg tan uses some kind of barks in their liquor) can create a firmer hide than some other types of tannage as a general rule.
Where most people fail is by oiling the hides to where they can't take a proper burnish. Moderns tend to want to destroy the characteristics of a bark tannage and try to make it like a floppy chrome tanned hide. Most communities had a tanner who ran a tanyard. By the late 1800s where I live they had mostly shut down and a larger industrial style tanyard was set up at the edge of the nearest city. Much oak bark was processed thru there. After doing it I now much prefer to use commercial leather. I have yet to find someone in the US who is properly making same on a small scale for sale so a do it yourself is the way.

Yes, I ordered deer rawhide from a drum maker and the stuff appears quite thin. Maybe I should order horse hide. Its thicker and I would not risk wasting time and materials for a dissapointing result (as shooting pouch that means).
Another downside is that European game is different to the animals one finds in the US, especially around 1700-1800. My first attempt at tanning was an oil tan with a fallow deer hide, with hair on. But there were no fallow deer in the US back then.
What can I do wrong when oiling the leather? Ive read here on the forum how someone used neatsfoot oil, used too much and couldnt get the stuff out. So, my own lesson from his experience would be to use an only slightly moist cloth, wait a few days, before applying a second layer. Or...not using that stuff at all. Maybe mutton tallow would be better/safer?

[Rado]

 I wish I could put that information under my avatar.

 You can. sort of, click on your name, then click "Modify Profile" then click "Forum Profile". You will see "Personal Text", type in what you want to say then scroll down and click "Change Profile) Your message will show at the bottom of all of your posts, take a look at the bottom of James' and you will see what I'm talking about.

   Tim

That worked. Thank You, Tim!

[Tim Crosby]

 I am glad to see that it also update to all of your previous posts. I wasn't sure if it would or not, so I learned something new today too.

  Tim

[Elnathan]

They even got Bison. But this would not be authentic for F&I-War or Rev-War bags I guess.

Actually, bison did live at one point in the eastern part of what is now the US. They were mostly gone from between the Appalachians and the Atlantic seaboard by 1750, so you might want to avoid bison hide for a F&I War bag, but there were plenty in the Tennessee-Kentucky-Ohio area in the early years of white settlement before being hunted out by maybe 1800. They are mentioned a lot in period sources, and seem in some cases to have been the preferred meat source. The hair was used for cordage or as a substitute for sheep's wool (I think I remember a reference to socks being made from buffalo hair) and the hide was commonly cut into "tugs" to tie things with - I dunno if they tanned it for sure but they had bison hide and did barktan hides so I think it is likely that they did. For a pouch made in that area between 1775-95 a bison hide would be quite OK, I think.

[Rado]

They even got Bison. But this would not be authentic for F&I-War or Rev-War bags I guess.

Actually, bison did live at one point in the eastern part of what is now the US. They were mostly gone from between the Appalachians and the Atlantic seaboard by 1750, so you might want to avoid bison hide for a F&I War bag, but there were plenty in the Tennessee-Kentucky-Ohio area in the early years of white settlement before being hunted out by maybe 1800. They are mentioned a lot in period sources, and seem in some cases to have been the preferred meat source. The hair was used for cordage or as a substitute for sheep's wool (I think I remember a reference to socks being made from buffalo hair) and the hide was commonly cut into "tugs" to tie things with - I dunno if they tanned it for sure but they had bison hide and did barktan hides so I think it is likely that they did. For a pouch made in that area between 1775-95 a bison hide would be quite OK, I think.

Interesting. Thank You! The prices are a bit salty but this would probably the most American raw material that I can get over here. Yes, worth a thought.

[EricEwing]

There are a TON of small scale backyard European bark-tanners and brain-tanners now.  You will find many of them on instagram, make an account and search the hashtags #barktan #braintan and #buckskin etc.
good luck

[Rado]

Thank You! Yes, finding raw hides is not difficult. I cant harvest them (without permission and I cant be bothered to get one, not worth the trouble). But what I can, I want to do by myself.
So, kits are just a last option in case I cant find fresh bark. But Im sure, as usual, as soon as I buy some, I will find a recently chopped down oak.

[hawkeye]

Rado, if you google a bit you can find walnut powder or quabracho to  tan you hides.I find a source in Holland
Hawkeye